AFK_Castles WIP Post
By Dwip August 22, 2010, 3:15 pm Comments (234) RSS Feed for this post

Reposted, more or less, from Samson’s, so that we all have a place to work free from the randomness of his Oblivion threads.

Ok, now as to this castles thing. I suppose we’ve got enough interest to actually start something, so.

Unless everyone decides on a better name, we’ll fold this under the AFK_ umbrella and call it AFK_Castles. Goal is to give more population to the castles and expand the interiors a little bit. Quests and anything major we can get to later.

Thinking division of labor thusly:

Dwip – Lead, AI, scripting, probably dialogue, general purpose whatever.
Sigurd – architecture and cluttering.
Hanaisse – Upper Class clothes retextures.
Conner – Enthusiasm and ideas.

And we can all chip in to develop the various NPCs and whatnot.

Figure the best way to do this is for me to keep a master ESP file, where I’ll deal with adding everything. If Sigurd’s going to all the architecture stuff, he can keep a seperate mini-esp with just the buildings and any custom statics in it, and I’ll Gecko merge it in from time to time. If the rest of you are just doing NPC facegen and such, probably the best way to do that is to have you do mini-esps where you create an NPC, do the face up, add basic and non-custom equipment as necessary, then pass it along to me so I can add it in.

Would like to keep things as relatively vanilla as possible, so would like to keep away from the custom hairs and such, with the exception of the clothing stuff, since there’s no way we can get by on the same 5 outfits. This can be negotiated, but I’m going to maintain a veto on aesthetical choices.

As to the NPCs themselves, let’s say 4 per castle for Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, and Leyawiin. Unless we come to a consensus otherwise, I’d say no Skingrad to keep with the nature of the Count and the place. That’s 24 NPCs. Either in addition to that or as part of that, we should have about 4 “roaming” NPCs who spend time at least 2 courts, just to mix things up a bit.

At the least, each NPC should have a unique greeting, with a bit about who they are. Unique responses to the various town topics are also good. Also, it’s worth noting that only the Breton, Elven, and Imperial voice lines for the upper class rumors are voiced. That may need to be worked around. Or not.

Architecturally, each castle should have an “X Castle Guest Quarters” cell with space for 4 NPCs and attached at the very least to the County Hall in some way. Sigurd’s the one with the castle architecture ideas, so I’ll leave that mostly up to him – towers, rooms, whatever. Figure if they’re rooms, they should be about the size of a pair of CastleInt1Way pieces stuck together. Secret passages, smaller courts, connections, clutter, whatever I leave to discretion. Within reason, if statics need to be created I can probably handle it.

I open the floor for ideas and suggestions.

[EDIT]

NPC List:

Anvil
1. Colin Pinder (Imperial Male) – Refugee noble from Kvatch
2. ??? (Breton male) – Provincial guy who wants to move in on Milona Umbranox
3. Admiral Graysin Umbranox (Imperial Male) – Has a treasure hunt quest.
4. Demetria (Bosmer female) – Sent from wherever to refine herself at court, spends time fighting instead.

Colin is involved in this quest revolving around the ghost of Antus Pinder and an heirloom. See same and following for Graysin’s quest.
Demetria here.

Bravil
1. ??? (Imp/Bret Female) – “Intended” for Gellius Terentius
2. ??? (??? Male) – Boon companion of Gellius Terentius
3. Rutilius Denius – father of Calidia
4. Licinia Denius – wife of Rutilius

Possible quest here to either clean up Gellius or debauch him. And/or get him married.

Bruma
1. Karn Silveraxe (Nord male) – Rustic chieftain type, helps out in the Charus quest.
2. Ragnar (Nord male) – Skyrim ambassador. Beard from here: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8393 Also has Snorri Skullshatter, faithful huscarl.
3. Calidia Denius (Imperial female) – wife to be of Storig Masson, part of indeterminate love polygon.
4. Storig Masson (Nord male) – husband to be of Calida, from Rifton in Skyrim.

Option for Ragnar to join in the MQ gate closing festivities.
Elaboration on Calidia here.

Cheydinhal
1. ??? (Dunmer male) – Obligatory Morrowind tie-in. From Mournhold perhaps.
2. ??? (Dunmer female) – Girl who’s all a-flutter at Farwil’s dashing heroics.
3. ??? (Orc male) – Mafia don type with ties to Orum gang and DB. Wants to assassinate #4.
4. ??? (??? ???) – Good-guy type who wants to investigate the orc guy and put him in jail.

Orc/investigator stuff here.

Chorrol
1. Petrius Valga (Imperial male) – Husband, cousin of Charus Valga
2. Elenora Valga (Imperial female) – wife of Petrius
3. Arim Relph (Redguard male) – Horse breeder.
4. ??? (Imperial Male) – Wannabe vampire

Dynamic where cousins remind Arriana Valga of her dead husband, so she hates them but won’t send them away because they’re reminders. Discussed here.
Issues with Alessia Caro not eating dinner with dear old mom.
Possible quest here for wannabe vamp to either infect him or “cure” him.

Leyawiin
1. ??? (Khajiit ???) – Possible khajiiti ambassador
2. ??? (Argonian ???) – Possible argonian ambassador
3.
4.

Floating
1. Adrius Vanarius (Imperial male) – Steel-armored paranoid who’s convinced the emperor’s assassins are after him, too.
2. ??? (??? ???) – has mining interests in Chorrol and Bruma.
3. Florius Canstavo (Imperial male) – Elder Council rep checking on Legion resources, including city guards. Huge Ocato gossip if disposition is high enough.
4. ??? (Altmer? ???) – AU dropout, has been hiding it, playing con games in various courts and moving on.
5. Nemeus Velopiscus (Imperial Male) – Mael’s crazy alchemical merchant scheme guy.


Computer Games - Elder Scrolls Series Comments (234) Trackback URL for this post RSS Feed for this post
Comments on AFK_Castles WIP Post
avatar Comment by Dwip #1
August 22, 2010 at 3:19 pm

And a few NPC ideas:

– Rustic Nord type in the vein of Feldscar’s Swiftrunner family;
– A refugee Kvatch noble to show up following appropriate main quest events. Probably good for Anvil or Chorrol.
– Obligatory Morrowind tie-in Dunmer. Maybe from Mournhold. I like Mournhold. Obvious for Cheydinhal.
– Also for Cheydinhal, the rather silly woman who’s all a-flutter with Farwil. Because you know somebody’s got to be.
– At least one guy who clanks around in steel armor for whatever reason. Paranoid because of the emperor’s murder and figures they’re coming for him next, say. He can go wherever, maybe be one of the roamers. Calling him Adrius Vanarius for the moment.

avatar Comment by Dwip #2
August 22, 2010 at 3:22 pm

Sigurd’s latest spiral staircase post:

Well, I’ve done some experimenting, and I have concluded that the maximum practical width in the CS of a step passing through a 10 degree turn is about the same as in real life, i.e. you can get most of your foot on it. This accords with my experience in castles, and also on the narrow stair at my grandparents house.

So I present two options, “full size tower” and “narrow tower”, the narrow version will fit twice into a “normal” castles tower, i.e. you can run two stairs inside the tower, which might be useful.

Pics:

One

Two

Three

Four

Five

Six

Seven

Thanks for all the feedback, and especially the positive comments. I’m not entirely happy with the lighting in the rooms themselves, I have have to script some of the wall lights to turn off during the day.

Edit: previously the steps went through a five degree turn, I basically deleted 50% of them, it now takes 20 steps to pass through 180 degrees and down one level of a tower.

avatar Comment by Dwip #3
August 22, 2010 at 4:42 pm

Moved blog-centric discussion here.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #4
August 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm

Right, I’m in.

OK, so I’m glad we’ve got the spiral stairs sorted, if we needed them. I can knock one up in about 10 minutes, and then copy as many times as needed.

About the meshes I’ve been using, currently they’re a mix of vanilla, stuff I retextured in Nifscope and some from Mr Siika’s caslte sets. I’m quite happy with what I’ve got, now that I’ve worked it out, but if Dwip wants to knock something up in Blender I’m not going to complain.

avatar Comment by Conner #5
August 22, 2010 at 5:05 pm

Welcome aboard, Sigurd. :)
I’d already started the replies to this thread, but so far all my replies ended up in the other thread that Dwip linked in the comment before yours for some reason.. 0:)

avatar Comment by Dwip #6
August 22, 2010 at 5:10 pm

We may as well cross that hurdle if and when we get there. I’d just as soon not spend the time in Blender if we’re not going to be using the piece. If you want to go that route, the best way would be to toss me an esp with a mockup where the tower is centered at 0,0,0 position.

That reminds me, though. A word on naming conventions:

– Meshes and textures, including any modder’s resources we end up using, should live in Data/Meshes/Dwip/AFK_Castles/ with added subdirectories as needed. Textures in Data/Textures/Dwip/AFK_Castles/

– Anything we make in the CS, with the exception of the cell names (which need to be named like the other castle cells for GetInCell purposes), should be prefixed with AFKCastles so we can find it easier.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #7
August 22, 2010 at 5:26 pm

Naming conventions noted.

I’ll put together a standalone esp with some mocked up towers and stairs for you to look at tomorrow. Currently it’s quite late here, and I’m already cluttering an Inn. Speaking of which, what about using some of the Inns already in the citys for our visitors?

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #8
August 22, 2010 at 5:40 pm

I’m here too :)

Dwip, question for clarification. You mentioned full NPC’s in it’s own .esp. Do you really want just one NPC per .esp, or several, or … ?

Nice work there, Sigurd :)

avatar Comment by Dwip #9
August 22, 2010 at 5:40 pm

Slight addendum to naming conventions – any modder’s resources we use should get their own distinct directories under /AFK_Castles/ for the sake of clarity. Forgot to mention.

Tomorrow works for me.

As far as the inns go, I think it’s a fine idea to have our folks visit them. I’m less excited about having them live there, because of the prevalance of other mods that use the same inns for beds and what have you. Less of a compatability risk if we just shack them up in the castle, even though it means more work on our part.

[Edit @ Hanaisse] No, just stick however many NPCs you end up doing in their own esp. Also, no need to stick them in the world anywhere – I’ll handle that.

avatar Comment by Mael #10
August 22, 2010 at 5:50 pm

Random NPC ideas:

– A dunmer who thinks he’s a vampire, but quite obviously isn’t. Creeps around the castle at night dressed in black robes/suit with cape pretending to bite guards or other NPCs. Perhaps there’s a quest to turn him back into a “normal” dunmer, or even better, into a real vampire.

avatar Comment by Conner #11
August 22, 2010 at 5:55 pm

I tend to agree with Dwip regarding the idea of housing the courtiers in the inns, but for another reason. While it might entirely be reasonable for our roaming dignitaries to stay at inns while their visiting whichever foreign castle they’re visiting, generally even they’d have a bed, if not a room, of their own in the castle they call home while not traveling and if they’re distinguished enough to be part of the regular court at multiple castles then perhaps they’re also important enough personages to be able to expect a bed at the castle’s they’re visiting too. As for the rest of our courtiers, unless they’re to be given manors/estates in the countryside surrounding the castle they attend court to, they’d be living in the castle not paying for a room at a local inn year round. Now, as Dwip said, I do think it’d be appropriate to have these courtiers (or at least some of them) occasionally make an appearance at a local inn (or, more likely, tavern) for meals/drinks and/or meetings with associates, especially if it’s meant to be a clandestine meeting that’s not so clandestine as to require real privacy. Likewise, it’s also quite reasonable that when not actively attending court some of these courtiers might be seen now and then interacting with some of the local shops as well. On the other hand, not all of them should have identical personalities nor identical shopping/dining/drinking habits at all either… especially in the cities that offer multiple shops featuring similar merchandise.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #12
August 22, 2010 at 5:56 pm

Could always make a new Inn: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Oblivion-01/innImdoingnow.jpg

Sorry, showing off now, Seriously though, I get the thing about using the inns, while I’m mucking about I’ll pull up the castles, see what we have to work with.

avatar Comment by Conner #13
August 22, 2010 at 6:01 pm

See, Mael’s presented us with our first plausible side-quest that we could easily inject into the “court intrigue” of one of our castles. Personally, I’m not sure I’d have thought of that particular idea, the notion of a “goth-wannabe” courtier isn’t even close to what I’d think of as medieval court intrigue, but.. it certainly is do-able and would go a ways towards some humor in what could easily otherwise be a series of very political side-quests stemming from our courtiers. In fact, to take his notion a step further, perhaps it could be a branched side-quest where you’ve got one courtier feeling sorry for him and asking the PC to try to “cure” him while a second courtier is looking to remove a potential rival by seeking PC help in having him turned for real.

avatar Comment by Conner #14
August 22, 2010 at 6:04 pm

That’s a nice looking inn, Sigurd. :)

avatar Comment by Dwip #15
August 22, 2010 at 6:05 pm

More or less what Conner said.

That…used to be the Cheydinhal Mages’ Guild, I think? Neat retex of the emblem.

I’d rather not make any exterior edits if we could get away with it. For one thing, city space is limited, and we’d need to make OCC/BC patches, and that’s just no fun at all.

I’m not opposed to the idea of eventually dotting the land with noble estates, but I think that’s a tad much for this version.

@Mael, I am personally SO done with vampires. Of course, I just now did pretty much all the vampire/vampire hunter quests in the game, so, you know. Consensus may vary, however.

avatar Comment by Conner #16
August 22, 2010 at 6:29 pm

I have to agree, adding 15-30 minor noble estates might be a bit much for this go round, but as an idea in the future, it does have realism going for it, as the courtiers would, in all likelihood, be sons/daughters of the minor nobles of the areas and have their own homes nearby ultimately, even if they did live in the castle proper most of the year. The exception to this would be “royal” advisors who might genuinely live in the castle proper exclusively, but they’d also have their own room not a bed in the guest quarters.

As for Mael’s idea, I can understand the reluctance to deal with more vampires atm, but his contribution isn’t without merit.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #17
August 22, 2010 at 6:30 pm

Hmmm, Courtier wants to be a vampire, possibly a young Imperial poet with no concept of the realities of life, wants to “escape” his “torturous” existence, it’s less Gothic than classical “Romantic”.

Dwip, no :D, that’s actually a Chorral Upper Class interior, with two room kit-bashed in using retextured bits from the Chorrol mages guild, and a couple of other things. You can see the kit-bash on the right of the screen grab, that’s the Fighter’s Guild loft sticking out on the end.

Thought: Better than making our own exterior edits might be to piggyback off Better Cities perhaps. It’s not what I would necessarily choose to do, but that’s the only way you’ll get remotely big enough castes I think.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #18
August 22, 2010 at 6:43 pm

OK, this is what I was talking about earlier, note how much of Bruma’s interior is covered by the castle keep, of course you don’t notice this because from the outside you just see the front of the keep, and as the city is closed you never walk around the whole thing.

Pic: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Oblivion-01/Brumacastletardis.jpg

For your information, Bruma Keep is 5×3 castle tiles on the outside, Battlehorn is 7×3 (which is why that’s the one I’ve spent so much time on.

avatar Comment by Dwip #19
August 22, 2010 at 6:47 pm

Chorrol was my other guess. But the roof peaks looked Cheydinhal to me, so… *shrug*

And a big no to the BC piggyback. I’m an OCC user myself, I think Conner still has vanilla cities, Hanaisse I think uses OCR…you get the idea, I think. Oblivion.esm should be our only master. In the event, from what you’ve said the castle interiors are out of whack as it is, so I’m not really all that worried about making them a little moreso. I’d suggest just redoing all the castle interiors, but that would be a nightmare for compatability.

To clarify, I’m not opposed to possibly exterior edits OUTSIDE the cities, if it comes to that, but it’s decidedly not my first choice, and there would need to be a good reason for it – quests and what have you. As far as simple housing goes, I think castles are the way to go.

I think Conner’s bit about the “vampire” has convinced me, and I like Sigurd’s idea of making him an Imperial – we already have two Dunmer in Cheydinhal already. Anybody have a preference about which city to stick him in? I’m thinking Bravil or Leyawiin for some reason. Anything but Bruma.

avatar Comment by Dwip #20
August 22, 2010 at 6:54 pm

Keeping in mind, of course, that IIRC interiors are almost always at least slightly larger than their corresponding exteriors. In any event treating it that way is probably our best bet. Layout over strict size.

avatar Comment by Mael #21
August 22, 2010 at 6:55 pm

s/vampire/ghost/ then. Or something else along those lines.

Random NPC idea #2:

Someone with a pet mini-troll.

BTW, wouldn’t Wave better serve the purpose you’re going for here?

avatar Comment by Sigurd #22
August 22, 2010 at 7:00 pm

I vote Leyawiin for the wannabe Vamp, or possibly Bravil. The one is actually quite idyllic , the other a complete whole -both work for the backstory.

On the piggyback, I wasn’t suggesting it, my own version of BC is patched as a matter of course, as in I’ve written patches to fix things I don’t like (there were houses clipping with the Cathedral in Chorrol). I was more making the point about the castles themselves.

I haven’t looked closely, but I think that I can fix Bruma without too much hassle, by moving the stairs to the four towers I can stick the Lord’s Manner on top of the Hall, and stick the guards barracks in the basement, it would require switching about a few doors, but not so many, bacuse the [i]internal[/i] organisation is quite consistant and tidy.

Something to think about for the future maybe?

avatar Comment by Dwip #23
August 22, 2010 at 7:01 pm

They closed down Wave, remember? I’m probably the only one of us who can get there from here.

– Strongly opposed to ghosts as being utterly cliche. Of course I just did like 5 quests worth of ghosts in Oblivion, so again, consensus may vary. Also may be better as a quest idea rather than as a guy who hangs out in the castle. I was thinking to keep those folks relatively normal.

– It strikes me as a fairly impossible task to keep a troll as a pet. Of course, I guess you could always have something where he keeps the pet troll in his room, then it later eats him, but my sense is that we can get better than that. More thought necessary.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #24
August 22, 2010 at 7:02 pm

We have other concerns though, I’m looking at Chorrol castle now and the dining table seats only eight, need to check how many npc’s use it normally.

avatar Comment by Dwip #25
August 22, 2010 at 7:04 pm

Yeah, let’s think about any possible internal organization of the castles later. Moving vanilla doors (or any persistant object) is a huge pain in the ass.

I do think sticking something above the County Hall would be cool though. Possibly a good spot for the guest wing.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #26
August 22, 2010 at 7:16 pm

Oblivion Castles are optical illusions, we should try to maintain that illusion. I think I’ll put to spiral stairs at the front of the Bruma Hall and place the guest wing directly above the main hall, we can then extend it to the same length as the vanilla cell beneath it.

avatar Comment by Conner #27
August 22, 2010 at 7:18 pm

I agree that Leyawiin or Bravil would work for our wanna be vampire. I’m also going to side with Dwip on the ghosts and mini-troll and the piggy backing as well.

Perhaps that table is the intimate dining table (just the royal family and primary advisors) and they could have a larger dining room for more formal occasions and otherwise the courtiers in Chorrol could dine in the kitchens wit the staff or in the guest quarters when not patronizing local taverns/inns?

County Hall?

avatar Comment by Samson #28
August 22, 2010 at 7:24 pm

Best bet to avoid any compatibility issues, and the inevitable cry of “does this work with X” is to just not do any exterior editing at all. Of course ABR is testament to the fact that even that doesn’t stop the questions :/

Absolutely bad idea to start thinking about relocating doors. If there’s any way at all to do what you guys are planning without moving doors, do it. Otherwise as Dwip says it gets ugly fast, mainly because the game engine loves to forget the edit trickery needed to forcefully relocate a door. The only alternative is worse because you’d have to use a script to move the door and scripted actions of any sort are permanently stored in the save – which then requires an uninstall quest.

There’s probably plenty of leeway inside these castles to tack on extra rooms with new doors of their own. Nobody is going to notice unless you try turning them into mega-structures. People hardly notice now that 90% of the exterior building meshes don’t match their interiors.

avatar Comment by Dwip #29
August 22, 2010 at 7:35 pm

Turns out the farmhouses of all things are pretty close fits. Not that that helps. Otherwise what Samson said.

Hrm. Going above the existing stack stuff would almost certainly require something custom, wouldn’t it. Have a look in a while.

Currently making a survey of who eats where and how much dining space is available.

I like Bravil for some reason for our vamp wannabe. Couldn’t tell you why, but I do.

avatar Comment by Samson #30
August 22, 2010 at 7:44 pm

Surely somewhere there must be room for The Wedgy? :P

avatar Comment by Mael #31
August 22, 2010 at 7:47 pm

The Wedgy for Emperor!

avatar Comment by Sigurd #32
August 22, 2010 at 7:49 pm

Dwip:

This it the mad genius of my building those wretched spiral stairs! All you need is a tower and you can go, up, up, up. Most Keeps are at least 3 tiles units high, so we don’t have to worry about headspace, and so long as wel break it up properly no one will notice the tardiceism.

About interiors more generally: Some are better than others, most of the houses seem to be reasonably accurate, as are the Chapels. However, the farmhouse Inn is needlessly 1/3rd longer inside than out (just give you three rooms upstairs instaid of two). Weynon Priory is also pretty bad, that “secret” room doesn’t actually exist on the outside :D.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #33
August 22, 2010 at 8:09 pm

OK, I’ve started roughing out the Bruma guest quarters and access stairways. I need to go to bed very shortly though ;-)

avatar Comment by Dwip #34
August 22, 2010 at 8:17 pm

Quick rundown of who eats where:

Anvil – 20×4, everyone has assigned chairs/AI

Baeralorn (BaeralornAnvilCastleFormalDinner)
Corvus Umbranox (CorvusAnvilCastleFormalDinner)
Millona Umbranox (MillonaAnvilCastleFormalDinner)
Darihill (DarihillAnvilCastleFormalDinner)
Heinrich Oaken-Hull (HeinrickCastleDinnerGuestTTh) Only Tue/Thu
Orrin (OrrinAnvilCastleFormalDinner)

2 seats spare

Bravil – (BravilCastleFormalDinner) 20×4

Drels Theran
Dro’Nahrahe
Fathis Aren
Gellius Terentius
Regulus Terentius

3 seats spare

Bruma – (BrumaCastleFormalDinner20x4)

Narina Carvain
Yvara Channitte
Gan Luseph

5 seats spare, 4 more at side tables (!)

Cheydinhal – (CheydinhalCastleFormalDinner) 20×4

Andel Indarys (also guest at Riverview Saturdays)
Naspia Cosma (also guest at Riverview Saturdays)
Ulene Hlervu

Farwil Indarys is Sir Not Appearing At This Castle.

5 seats spare

Chorrol –

Ariana Valga (ArianaValgaEat20x4)

Nobody else seems to eat in the dining hall with her for various reasons.

7 (!) seats spare

Leyawiin –

Alessia Caro (LeyawiinCastleDinnerAlessia) 20×3, also (DASanguineDinnerPackage5) 18×6
Britta Invel (DASanguineDinnerPackage3) 18×6
Hildara Mothril (LeyawiinCastleDinnerHildara) 20×3
Jaras Invel (DASanguineDinnerPackage4) 18×6
Marius Caro (LeyawiinCastleDinnerMarius) 20×3
On-Staya Sundew (LeyawiinCastleDinnerOnStaya) 20×3
Termanwe (DASanguineDinnerPackage2) 18×6
Tsavi (LeyawiinCastleDinnerTsavi) 20×3
Vlaramil Orius (DASanguineDinnerPackage1) 18×6

Alessia Caro, Mahei, and Numeen eat dinner privately a couple of times per week.

The DASanguineDinnerPackage folks only ever appear during that quest.

Need to work around DASanguine. The package DASanguineStayAway will put people in their editor locations during the quest.

3 seats spare

While this may be an issue in a couple spots (Anvil), we can probably work it out so nobody eats at the kiddy table.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #35
August 22, 2010 at 8:54 pm

Wow, I’m way behind the party here.

All the talk about inns, exterior edits, housing outside city walls, etc …. let’s remember, this is AFK_CASTLES ;)

Vamp dude would be well suited in Bravil, I think. The count there is pretty sketchy anyway, I’m sure they’d get along great. Tie him in with stories about the Skingrad count. (Like how I can’t remember their names? lol)

Random door added to a corner of any main hall, leads to spiral staircase, leads up or down (or both) to said guest quarters. Path of least resistance, imo.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #36
August 22, 2010 at 9:18 pm

OK, I’ve roughed out the Bruma Guest quarters, a number of potential rooms built around an open central space: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Oblivion-01/Brumaguestquarters.jpg

New access door in the Great Hall: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Oblivion-01/Brumanewdoor.jpg

And the new tower stair case: http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Oblivion-01/towerstair.jpg

The staircase looks different because I used all-vanilla meshes here.

Edit: Only just realised I created nine rooms, I suppose we can make some bigger ones then. Right, bed now.

avatar Comment by Samson #37
August 22, 2010 at 10:51 pm

Alessia Caro, Mahei, and Numeen eat dinner privately a couple of times per week.

Which won’t last long once the next UOPS update is ready. Her open racism conflicts directly with the idea that she’d even consider dinner with lizards. Dinner made of lizards maybe, but not with lizards.

Farwil Indarys no doubt thinks his handy dandy knights lodge outside of town works better.

Ariana Valga must have old woman cooties or something. How sad. Something should be done about this. Her daughter doesn’t even eat with her when she’s in town? Cause if she doesn’t that seems like it should get fixed.

avatar Comment by Mael #38
August 22, 2010 at 11:50 pm

You can’t make a custom mobile troll and make it non-aggressive and then script it to follow someone? It’s gotta be possible.

avatar Comment by Dwip #39
August 23, 2010 at 12:25 am

Hopefully I’ve fixed that business with multiple links going to moderation even on edit.

Lot of rooms there, and I agree, I think we ought to see about making them larger, and perhaps shrinking down the size of the level a bit.

Also think you should give some thought to adding in at least the provisions for a second spiral staircase on the other side. Thinking about several NPCs trying to path their way up and down.

Considering how barren Chorrol is, I’m tempted to drop an extra couple people in there just ’cause. Too, Alessia Caro and Hildara Mothril could presumably be made to eat dinner with the Countess instead of standing around, which is what they currently do.

And I can make a non-agg troll and AI it just fine. I just question the wisdom of doing so.

avatar Comment by Conner #40
August 23, 2010 at 1:01 am

Surely somewhere there must be room for The Wedgy? :P

The Wedgy?

Anvil – 20×4, everyone has assigned chairs/AI

Ok, so, what do these numbers (the #x# sequence) mean?
Eating at the kiddie table isn’t really nearly as much a problem as you might think, it was quite common for formal banquets and such to be arranged so that the royals (sometimes their families as well, sometimes not) ate at a table that was higher and/or perpendicular to the rest of the tables with everyone else arranged in order of rank with respect to proximity to the head table. In fact, that’s not so uncommon even today for catered events…

Vamp dude would be well suited in Bravil, I think. The count there is pretty sketchy anyway, I’m sure they’d get along great. Tie him in with stories about the Skingrad count. (Like how I can’t remember their names? lol)

I also like Bravil, and I also have trouble with all the names like Hanaisse. :shrug:

…[pictures]… Only just realised I created nine rooms, I suppose we can make some bigger ones then. Right, bed now.

Those look pretty good to me, though I especially like the porcupine effect of the tower in the last one.. :P
Right, have a g’nite! :wave:

Which won’t last long once the next UOPS update is ready. Her open racism conflicts directly with the idea that she’d even consider dinner with lizards. Dinner made of lizards maybe, but not with lizards.

Unfortunately, that makes the mod require UOPS if we take that into account. Just saying…

Farwil Indarys no doubt thinks his handy dandy knights lodge outside of town works better.

I take it this guy’s temperament is really just that bad then?

Ariana Valga must have old woman cooties or something. How sad. Something should be done about this. Her daughter doesn’t even eat with her when she’s in town? Cause if she doesn’t that seems like it should get fixed.

That really is rather sad, but perhaps it’d make a good tidbit for court gossip amongst the new courtiers? Maybe there’s bad blood going on between her and her daughter and no one else had been explicitly invited to dine with her nor do they dare request to be her dining companion and thus risk appearing to think themselves above her own daughter…

Hopefully I’ve fixed that business with multiple links going to moderation even on edit.

Was that an issue? I don’t think I’ve tried editing or requesting to delete any of my posts yet, but all the previous posts I’ve made have both links and they respectively point to what appears to be correct respective links…

Also think you should give some thought to adding in at least the provisions for a second spiral staircase on the other side. Thinking about several NPCs trying to path their way up and down.

In real life, wouldn’t this just mean that they’d have to wait for each other rather than the master mason/carpenter being called to work in second flight of stairs? Is it more of an issue than that in-game?

Considering how barren Chorrol is, I’m tempted to drop an extra couple people in there just ’cause. Too, Alessia Caro and Hildara Mothril could presumably be made to eat dinner with the Countess instead of standing around, which is what they currently do.

I’m good with both of those suggestions. I see no reason that Chorrol should be a vast echo chamber nor for the Countess to dine alone unless there is a reason in the scripting that I wouldn’t know about.. on the other hand, have you already determined what to do about the DASanguine issue?

You can’t make a custom mobile troll and make it non-aggressive and then script it to follow someone? It’s gotta be possible.

And I can make a non-agg troll and AI it just fine. I just question the wisdom of doing so.

I also question the wisdom behind this one. I try to be pretty open minded and generally accepting of new ideas, but I just can’t quite see where we’d go with this one. As far as odd pets, I could more easily see someone amongst the courtiers secretly being a mage who’s got summoned pets in their quarters that no one’s supposed to know about using the standard existing summon spells, or even the special summoned imp-thingy that the one mage has in her role as guild-mistress… (hopefully someone else already knows which one I’m thinking of, names of people and places are not my forte…)

—————

Okay, caught back up for now (and until morning most likely).. but one more question, and it’s more suited to the other thread but definitely brought on by the rest of this post: Dwip, isn’t there any better solution available for quoting besides a blockquote tag?? Does WordPress just not at all support attributed quotes?? :(

[Edit] Okay, editing function works just fine as far as I can tell, btw.

avatar Comment by Samson #41
August 23, 2010 at 1:13 am

Unfortunately, that makes the mod require UOPS if we take that into account. Just saying…

Not really. The AI packs being removed from Alessia Caro are stock. Stuff you can either duplicate or let Wrye Bash sort out.

I take it this guy’s temperament is really just that bad then?

Nah, but he is a bit… shall we say… impulsive?

In real life, wouldn’t this just mean that they’d have to wait for each other rather than the master mason/carpenter being called to work in second flight of stairs? Is it more of an issue than that in-game?

Way more of an issue. The AI isn’t smart enough to “be polite” so when impasses like this happen it tends to cause NPCs to wander off and do other stuff, or take really strange long ways around to do things.

Re: Troll, I’d say don’t bother. It’s too out of character for courtiers to be messing with monsters inside the castle.

avatar Comment by Dwip #42
August 23, 2010 at 1:22 am

The Wedgy?

All hail the Wedgy!

(old MUD joke. Sort of like squirrel aliens.)

Ok, so, what do these numbers (the #x# sequence) mean?

Oh, sorry. 20×4 means that the AI pack in question starts at hour 20 (24 hour clock here), and lasts for 4 hours.

I know what you mean about the kiddie table, but I’d much rather a crowded main table if we can get away with it.

I also like Bravil, and I also have trouble with all the names like Hanaisse. :shrug:

Regulus Terentius, for the record. Janus Hassildor in Skingrad. And I think we’ll stick this guy in Bravil.

Unfortunately, that makes the mod require UOPS if we take that into account. Just saying…

We can just ignore that whole thing, which is probably for the best.

I take it this guy’s temperament is really just that bad then?

“You ditched Napoleon?”

“He was a dick!”

Yes, is the short answer.

That really is rather sad, but perhaps it’d make a good tidbit for court gossip amongst the new courtiers?

I like you’re thinking, but I don’t know that it bears out – Alessia follows mom everywhere, she just doesn’t eat anything.

Was that an issue? I don’t think I’ve tried editing or requesting to delete any of my posts yet, but all the previous posts I’ve made have both links and they respectively point to what appears to be correct respective links…

Yeah, it was. I had to rescue Sigurd from moderation twice already because of the links.

on the other hand, have you already determined what to do about the DASanguine issue?

Yes. There’s an already-existing AI pack to have people opt out of that particular dinner time when the quest is running. So we’ll just stick that on the Leyawiin people, and all will be well. May need a custom one for any travellers to Leyawiin though.

Let me answer the blockquote thing in the WordPress thread.

avatar Comment by Mael #43
August 23, 2010 at 1:51 am

Re: Troll, I’d say don’t bother. It’s too out of character for courtiers to be messing with monsters inside the castle.

Oh? I can totally see one hiding one in his room to spring on an unwary count and seize power…

avatar Comment by Conner #44
August 23, 2010 at 1:54 am

Not really. The AI packs being removed from Alessia Caro are stock. Stuff you can either duplicate or let Wrye Bash sort out.

We can just ignore that whole thing, which is probably for the best.

Simple enough then.

I take it this guy’s temperament is really just that bad then?

Nah, but he is a bit… shall we say… impulsive?

Yes, is the short answer.

Sounds like a nice focal point for court intrigue all by himself. If the other courtiers are as put off by him as you guys are, there could be constant plots amongst them against him, even if just at the practical joke level.

Way more of an issue. The AI isn’t smart enough to “be polite” so when impasses like this happen it tends to cause NPCs to wander off and do other stuff, or take really strange long ways around to do things.

Hmm, in that case, we’ll have to metagame and provide an up staircase and a down staircase and just deal with it, I suppose. A shame really since it breaks immersion a bit, but at least it’s not entirely disorienting or anything, especially if it’s a common feature to all castles in the world so it becomes more of an architectural styling thing for the world rather than just a deviation or oddity.

Re: Troll, I’d say don’t bother. It’s too out of character for courtiers to be messing with monsters inside the castle.

In general, I agree entirely. For specific situations, I could envision a scenario where a courtier might contract a “monster” out in the wilderness to do his bidding for some task/goal, but I really can’t see a courtier bringing one home to keep as a pet.

(old MUD joke. Sort of like squirrel aliens.)

Ah, understood then. In fact, now that you mention that, I believe I’ve seen the reference once before at Samson’s.

Oh, sorry. 20×4 means that the AI pack in question starts at hour 20 (24 hour clock here), and lasts for 4 hours.

I know what you mean about the kiddie table, but I’d much rather a crowded main table if we can get away with it.

Ah, makes perfect sense now. In that case, perhaps some of the castles with smaller dining facilities run the dining room in shifts with family eating at 8p and some guests eating at 6p, for example, but only being allotted two hours instead of four since they’re not as important.

Well, yes, if we can get away with it, having everyone crowded at a main table would be preferable though in the more crowded castles we could still resort to a second table for the courtiers. Especially if they are Nord, for example, since the vikings would have used that sort of dining arrangement even more readily than Europeans.

Regulus Terentius, for the record. Janus Hassildor in Skingrad. And I think we’ll stick this guy in Bravil.

Yes, Regulus, that was the guy! :lol:
Sounds decided then. :)

I like you’re thinking, but I don’t know that it bears out – Alessia follows mom everywhere, she just doesn’t eat anything.

Just gotta watch her girlish figure, eh? I’m not even a courtier and I’m already intrigued as to why she wouldn’t dine with dear old mom then, especially if it’s not like anyone else is already occupying mom’s dinner table either. Perhaps Ariana has some phobia about having people watch her eat, or perhaps Alessia dines on something that wouldn’t be appropriate in polite company.. or maybe Ariana has a phobia about food poisoning and doesn’t even trust her devoted daughter… You’d said that “Nobody else seems to eat in the dining hall with her for various reasons.”, I take it you’ve got specific reasons you found in the scripting for everyone else to not join her then? Any that would be interesting gossip fodder or just that everyone else is scripted to be elsewhere between 8p and midnight?

Was that an issue? I don’t think I’ve tried editing or requesting to delete any of my posts yet, but all the previous posts I’ve made have both links and they respectively point to what appears to be correct respective links…

Yeah, it was. I had to rescue Sigurd from moderation twice already because of the links.

Hmm, I hadn’t realized, but it’s definitely working now so I guess it’s all fixed and I should be grateful that I hadn’t tried to edit any of my posts earlier. :lol:

Yes. There’s an already-existing AI pack to have people opt out of that particular dinner time when the quest is running. So we’ll just stick that on the Leyawiin people, and all will be well. May need a custom one for any travellers to Leyawiin though.

Sounds good, and the custom one for the roamers is technical department.. ;)

Let me answer the blockquote thing in the WordPress thread.

Fair enough. It really belonged there anyway.

avatar Comment by Conner #45
August 23, 2010 at 1:59 am

Oh? I can totally see one hiding one in his room to spring on an unwary count and seize power…

Again, I could see it outside the castle, but who in their right mind would dream of loosing a monster in their own chambers? Remember that we’re talking courtiers here, most of them are likely to be more fopish than skilled mage and thus wouldn’t be able to control such a beastie on their own. Any who are the mage type that are powerful enough to be able to control a monster that well could just as easily charm the aforementioned unwary count without the risk of a wild creature not behaving. The logic just doesn’t hold. Sorry Mael.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #46
August 23, 2010 at 6:14 am

Lot of rooms there, and I agree, I think we ought to see about making them larger, and perhaps shrinking down the size of the level a bit.

Also think you should give some thought to adding in at least the provisions for a second spiral staircase on the other side. Thinking about several NPCs trying to path their way up and down.

I can make the provision in the level for another stair, that’s not hard. I don’t want to shrink the level though, currently it directly overlays the lower half of the Great Hall, the floor plans match and I think that’s important. If I forshorten it I create the appearence of “dead” space which will break immersion and lead the player ot realize the whole thing is a dimension trick anyway.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #47
August 23, 2010 at 2:01 pm

I’ve been thinking: Ambassadors.

For Example, a Skyrim Ambassador in Bruma with a Huscarl and possibly a warhound. He could be layed up in Bruma because his party was attacked in the mountains over the border by Deadra, so he’s stuck and has decided to offer his sword in defence of the city until the end of the Oblivion Crisis.

This brings me on to another point: Servants and retainers.

Some of the characters we are proposing will require, maids, bodyguards, etc. and these will need to be accomodated. Never fear, I believe I have space in Bruma already.

I’m going to work Bruma up a bit more, get the doorways in, and then start on Chorrol.

avatar Comment by Dwip #48
August 23, 2010 at 2:02 pm

You’d said that “Nobody else seems to eat in the dining hall with her for various reasons.”, I take it you’ve got specific reasons you found in the scripting for everyone else to not join her then? Any that would be interesting gossip fodder or just that everyone else is scripted to be elsewhere between 8p and midnight?

Everyone in Chorrol castle has AI to reflect make the quest Canvassing the Castle possible. Which I guess means we’ll need to have some “I don’t know anything!” dialogue for our guys during that time.

The Ariana/Alessia strategizing is good, but not convinced it works. Alessia in particular is notorious for throwing dinner parties back home in Leyawiin. IIRC Ariana is a bit of a grouch after her husband died, but otherwise.

@Sigurd –

Fair enough.

@All –

NPC idea, building off the pet troll thing. Mage, maybe maybe not with an imp (or a scamp, since imps have been done), either brags about being top of his class at the Arcane University or of “not needing that ridiculous school.” Later blows up something or sets loose a scamp horde or something. Alternately, turns out to have been lying about the whole Arcane University thing.

Also, thinking we need at least one husband/wife set, although I have no idea what they’d do. Boring salt of the earth farmer types, irritate Ariana Valga in Chorrol by their very presence due to dead husband? Something.

Two Bravil thoughts. One, Gellius Terentius’ somewhat annoyed betrothed, who spends all her time watching him be a skooma fiend and the Count be a notorious drunk. The other a boon companion of Gellius who participates in the debauchery. Both could eventually be involved in a quest to either clean the guy up or to really, really debauch him in some fashion.

For Anvil, perhaps a provincial noble sea captain type, trying to move in on the Countess since her husband’s disappeared.

Any of those strike anyone’s fancy?

avatar Comment by Dwip #49
August 23, 2010 at 2:11 pm

I’ve been thinking: Ambassadors.

For Example, a Skyrim Ambassador in Bruma with a Huscarl and possibly a warhound. He could be layed up in Bruma because his party was attacked in the mountains over the border by Deadra, so he’s stuck and has decided to offer his sword in defence of the city until the end of the Oblivion Crisis.

I like this idea. I think the guy I was proposing for Cheydinhal fits into this somewhat, and you could put an Argonian and a Khajiit into Leyawiin for same, which would also fit into that whole racism dynamic Leyawiin has.

Also for Bruma, playing off the whole Skyrim vs. soft imperials thing, how about an IC noble with mining interests or some such? Couple places we could go with that.

Some of the characters we are proposing will require, maids, bodyguards, etc. and these will need to be accomodated. Never fear, I believe I have space in Bruma already.

I think probably the best way to do this would be to have, say, a pair of servants for each castle guest wing, who have their own quarters somewhere in it. As far as bodyguards, we should probably handle this on a case by case basis, trending towards very few because they’re a huge pain in the ass to do the AI/scripting for.

I’m going to work Bruma up a bit more, get the doorways in, and then start on Chorrol.

Also remember the sooner you get me that esp with the spiral stairs, the sooner I can make your life easier.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #50
August 23, 2010 at 2:33 pm

Dwip, do you really want to do stair pieces? I don’t think I need them honestly, but I can mock up a special esp just for that, if you want, where should I send it?

I’ll have to include 1 modder’s resources, which would be Mr Siika’s “Castlewallpiece” from his origonal “Griffon Fortress” set. The farmhouse piece is just too hard to work with.

avatar Comment by Dwip #51
August 23, 2010 at 2:46 pm

My email is the same as the blog address, only with an @ instead of a .

And I’m just thinking that you’re going to be doing an awful lot of spiral staircases before this thing is done, so may as well make it easier on you.

Also I’ve always wanted to do up a spiral staircase, so.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #52
August 23, 2010 at 2:51 pm

If you’re going to do one, may I suggest a 45 degree turn and a single step? From experience of trying to use fixed stairs that you need flexability, because often you want to ad another door, so you need to be able to control where the stairs are placed. Right and left-handed turns are also a must for similar reasons.

Still want to do them?

avatar Comment by Dwip #53
August 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm

I imagine that could happen, yes.

Which is to say that I was thinking of starting with a single 180 degree set, which could then be broken down from there without too much trouble if need be.

avatar Comment by Conner #54
August 23, 2010 at 3:46 pm

Everyone in Chorrol castle has AI to reflect make the quest Canvassing the Castle possible. Which I guess means we’ll need to have some “I don’t know anything!” dialogue for our guys during that time.

The Ariana/Alessia strategizing is good, but not convinced it works. Alessia in particular is notorious for throwing dinner parties back home in Leyawiin. IIRC Ariana is a bit of a grouch after her husband died, but otherwise.

So, we can flag our NPCs to respond to with specific answers about not being involved in that quest while the player’s Canvassing the Castle quest is active then?

Alessia is already a roamer then?

Do we know how Ariana’s husband died? Maybe that could play into as well.

NPC idea, building off the pet troll thing. Mage, maybe maybe not with an imp (or a scamp, since imps have been done), either brags about being top of his class at the Arcane University or of “not needing that ridiculous school.” Later blows up something or sets loose a scamp horde or something. Alternately, turns out to have been lying about the whole Arcane University thing.

I think the scamp could work if it’s like the mage guild lady’s one where she really only knows a couple of spells.. does anyone else know what I’m talking about with that? I got it from doing the quest series to be accepted by all the mage guilds. :shrug:
Anyway, going back to your idea, the notion of a mage who’s lying about having attended the university that screws up and releases a minor horde that temporarily overruns the castle would be feasible, and the mage in question would go out of his way to avoid anyone who really has attended the university for fear of discovery. Perhaps (s)he knows a few spells but nothing spectacular and all flashy spells that look more impressive than they really are?

Also, thinking we need at least one husband/wife set, although I have no idea what they’d do. Boring salt of the earth farmer types, irritate Ariana Valga in Chorrol by their very presence due to dead husband? Something.

One of them would have to be someone important (directly related to someone important at least) or Ariana would have no reason to not just throw them out. Maybe if the son of a moderately high ranking noble (Ariana’s cousin perhaps) had married a farmer’s daughter far beneath his station out of love but his father insists that he attend Ariana’s court in hopes that he’ll still learn the politics he’ll one day need in his capacity of being fifth (no direct threat, but close enough that he can’t be summarily dismissed) from the throne that Ariana sits upon?

Two Bravil thoughts. One, Gellius Terentius’ somewhat annoyed betrothed, who spends all her time watching him be a skooma fiend and the Count be a notorious drunk. The other a boon companion of Gellius who participates in the debauchery. Both could eventually be involved in a quest to either clean the guy up or to really, really debauch him in some fashion.

I suppose it’s reasonable for that city’s castle, but I personally dislike playing on the drug/alcohol abuse angle in general, regardless of which way you’re trying to end up going with it. It’s realistic, but rarely intriguing, let alone romantic. :shrug:

For Anvil, perhaps a provincial noble sea captain type, trying to move in on the Countess since her husband’s disappeared.

Do we have any clue what’s really happened to her husband?

I’ve been thinking: Ambassadors.

For Example, a Skyrim Ambassador in Bruma with a Huscarl and possibly a warhound. He could be layed up in Bruma because his party was attacked in the mountains over the border by Deadra, so he’s stuck and has decided to offer his sword in defence of the city until the end of the Oblivion Crisis.

I like this idea. I think the guy I was proposing for Cheydinhal fits into this somewhat, and you could put an Argonian and a Khajiit into Leyawiin for same, which would also fit into that whole racism dynamic Leyawiin has.

Also for Bruma, playing off the whole Skyrim vs. soft imperials thing, how about an IC noble with mining interests or some such? Couple places we could go with that.

Ambassadors very closely resemble our roamers in general, and generally bring full agendas as well as greetings from home. There are all sorts of things that can be done with ambassadors, both the ones who are well received and highly honored guests as well as those who are barely tolerated guests allowed to remain only because they’re ambassadors to someone too important to insult by throwing the ambassador out. Rarely are ambassadors background players because the nature of their job is such that they need to draw attention, but they often also serve as spies as well.

Actually, I’d think an Argonian and Khajiit ambassador would be politically required in Leyawiin in order to insure that, despite the racism, those races have some degree of influence and not just be banished in a blanket action.

A noble with mining interests wouldn’t need to be from IC to create a stir in the courts of several castles.

Some of the characters we are proposing will require, maids, bodyguards, etc. and these will need to be accomodated. Never fear, I believe I have space in Bruma already.

I think probably the best way to do this would be to have, say, a pair of servants for each castle guest wing, who have their own quarters somewhere in it. As far as bodyguards, we should probably handle this on a case by case basis, trending towards very few because they’re a huge pain in the ass to do the AI/scripting for.

I love the realism aspect of adding handmaidens, chamberlains, bodyguards, messengers, general servants, and so forth but each one adds another NPC complete with all the issues each of our courtiers has: dialogue, where/when do they eat/sleep, etc.

Okay, if AI/scripting creates an extra challenge for certain types, that may need to be a consideration as well. I would think that a pair of servants for the general quarters is certainly enough if we’re trying to avoid an army of servants/staff and aren’t too concerned with shooting for full realism anyway. If we do want to shoot for realism, castles generally are very crowded places because on top of the kitchen staff and the castle’s general staff, every noble and courtier generally has at least two servants of their own and many would have dozens of them.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #55
August 23, 2010 at 3:48 pm

So, in response to some NPC ideas;

Two Bravil thoughts. One, Gellius Terentius’ somewhat annoyed betrothed, who spends all her time watching him be a skooma fiend and the Count be a notorious drunk. The other a boon companion of Gellius who participates in the debauchery. Both could eventually be involved in a quest to either clean the guy up or to really, really debauch him in some fashion.

I think a young lady ‘person of interest’ would be a better sell than Gellius suddenly having a betrothed. The other friend is good. Interventions? Hmm. Are we sure that won’t break anything?

For Anvil, perhaps a provincial noble sea captain type, trying to move in on the Countess since her husband’s disappeared.

For Example, a Skyrim Ambassador in Bruma with a Huscarl and possibly a warhound. He could be layed up in Bruma because his party was attacked in the mountains over the border by Deadra, so he’s stuck and has decided to offer his sword in defence of the city until the end of the Oblivion Crisis.

I expected this would come up sooner or later. These pose condundrums of breaking other quests, or simply not making sense depending on where the player is on other quests. If Thieves Guild is completed then the Anvil idea doesn’t fly, if the MQ is completed, the second idea is out of place. Then again, if neither of those quests are done then sure, makes sense.

So, question is, how deeply do we go with pre-MQ, post-MQ stuff? (and other related quests).

I like all the other ideas. And I’ll offer some of my own ideas shortly.

avatar Comment by Conner #56
August 23, 2010 at 4:06 pm

I think a young lady ‘person of interest’ would be a better sell than Gellius suddenly having a betrothed. The other friend is good. Interventions? Hmm. Are we sure that won’t break anything?

Even a sudden betrothal is better than a sudden spouse, but yes, fair enough. In fact, if you really want to throw the city into a state of chaos, we could have an announcement of betrothal with all the mandatory accompanying celebrations and have the betrothed confide in the PC that she’s very worried about her new life with the drug/alcohol influenced Count. ;)

Interventions breaking something. I don’t know, but it’s a very fair consideration.

I expected this would come up sooner or later. These pose condundrums of breaking other quests, or simply not making sense depending on where the player is on other quests. If Thieves Guild is completed then the Anvil idea doesn’t fly, if the MQ is completed, the second idea is out of place. Then again, if neither of those quests are done then sure, makes sense.

So, question is, how deeply do we go with pre-MQ, post-MQ stuff? (and other related quests).

And it’s a very good question, indeed. Dwip has already implied that we can alter dialogue dependent upon what quests are active, can we also make NPCs who only exist pre/post certain quests? Likewise, do we want stuff going into these castle’s that’s so heavily dependent upon external conditions at all?

avatar Comment by Samson #57
August 23, 2010 at 4:08 pm

+1 on the Anvil guy trying to make a move on Milona, at least until Corvus comes back, then maybe set something up at that point where they challenge each other to a duel. Or perhaps the guy does something stupid when Corvus comes back and gets himself arrested. Don’t know what, if anything, would break if Corvus is allowed to be killed. So it might need to be rigged in his favor.

+1 on the Nord ambassador guy, except I don’t see any need for him to take off once the crisis is ended. Maybe he’s decided he likes Bruma enough to want to obtain permanent residence? His party being killed I don’t see him wanting to make the trip home alone.

Also, if he’s offered his blade in service during the defense of the city, he better get his butt out to the battlefield and participate. And if he dies, have a funeral or something for him in his honor. At the very least he would deserve a gravestone somewhere mentioning it.

+1 also to Gellius getting a girlfriend, but not a new wife. Got me on what to do with that though.

avatar Comment by Dwip #58
August 23, 2010 at 4:22 pm

Huh. Looks like paginated commenting broke with this theme. Oh well. Not broken up about it.

And I can’t keep up with you guys.

So, we can flag our NPCs to respond to with specific answers about not being involved in that quest while the player’s Canvassing the Castle quest is active then?

Yes. We’ll need to add the dialogue, but that’s easily enough done. In general, a lot of quest reaction type stuff can be done this way.

Alessia is already a roamer then?

Yes. She’s pretty complex, actually. Countess of Leyawiin, but spends some time at home with dear old mom in Chorrol once a month or something to that effect. Also has, or had after the UOP does her in, a fairly busy social schedule in Leyawiin.

Do we know how Ariana’s husband died? Maybe that could play into as well.

And I quote the UESP, ” Her deceased husband, Charus Valga, the hereditary Count Chorrol, was slain in battle against Nord clansmen from Skyrim.”

Anyway, going back to your idea, the notion of a mage who’s lying about having attended the university that screws up and releases a minor horde that temporarily overruns the castle would be feasible, and the mage in question would go out of his way to avoid anyone who really has attended the university for fear of discovery. Perhaps (s)he knows a few spells but nothing spectacular and all flashy spells that look more impressive than they really are?

This, yes.

One of them would have to be someone important (directly related to someone important at least) or Ariana would have no reason to not just throw them out. Maybe if the son of a moderately high ranking noble (Ariana’s cousin perhaps) had married a farmer’s daughter far beneath his station out of love but his father insists that he attend Ariana’s court in hopes that he’ll still learn the politics he’ll one day need in his capacity of being fifth (no direct threat, but close enough that he can’t be summarily dismissed) from the throne that Ariana sits upon?

Or perhaps he/she/dad/somebody was a cousin/relative of the dead Count, so she keeps them because they reminder her of him, despite the fact that it’s painful for her.

I suppose it’s reasonable for that city’s castle, but I personally dislike playing on the drug/alcohol abuse angle in general, regardless of which way you’re trying to end up going with it. It’s realistic, but rarely intriguing, let alone romantic. :shrug:

Don’t disagree, just trying to take advantage of what’s already in the lore. The Count’s a notorious drunk and the son’s a skooma addict, so what are you going to do with that, really.

Do we have any clue what’s really happened to her husband?

Without spoiling an entire guild questline for you, yes.

A noble with mining interests wouldn’t need to be from IC to create a stir in the courts of several castles.

I’m just saying IC to fit in with the established heartlanders vs. Nords dynamic established by the game. It occurs to me that this guy could actually be from, say, Bravil or Chorrol, and could be one of our travellers.

I love the realism aspect of adding handmaidens, chamberlains, bodyguards, messengers, general servants, and so forth but each one adds another NPC complete with all the issues each of our courtiers has: dialogue, where/when do they eat/sleep, etc.

This. If we go down that route, we should go pretty minimalist, and confine most of these guys to the one cell or so, or else we’ll bog down. Let’s deal with the nobles first before we get really excited.

I think a young lady ‘person of interest’ would be a better sell than Gellius suddenly having a betrothed. The other friend is good. Interventions? Hmm. Are we sure that won’t break anything?

I think you are correct here. Although I don’t think Gellius is actually involved in anything. Mods, nothing. So I don’t feel bad about hijacking him.

I expected this would come up sooner or later. These pose condundrums of breaking other quests, or simply not making sense depending on where the player is on other quests. If Thieves Guild is completed then the Anvil idea doesn’t fly, if the MQ is completed, the second idea is out of place. Then again, if neither of those quests are done then sure, makes sense.

Depending on the quest, it’s probably possible to integrate some stuff, although we’d need to go through the pain of making up “wrapper” quests to avoid directly editing the vanilla quests.

+1 on the Anvil guy trying to make a move on Milona, at least until Corvus comes back, then maybe set something up at that point where they challenge each other to a duel. Or perhaps the guy does something stupid when Corvus comes back and gets himself arrested. Don’t know what, if anything, would break if Corvus is allowed to be killed. So it might need to be rigged in his favor.

Hard, but doable for the duel. Easier on the arrested bit. I don’t THINK anything breaks if you off Corvus, but in any event he’s level 40, so I don’t think it’s much of a problem.

The rest of this is all good, although running funerals is probably going to be pretty complex. I’m pretty sure I could get them to show up for MQwhateveritis.

avatar Comment by Conner #59
August 23, 2010 at 5:17 pm

Huh. Looks like paginated commenting broke with this theme. Oh well. Not broken up about it.

And I can’t keep up with you guys.

Oops, bet it could be fixed fairly easily. Just compare to what the default theme uses, eh?

I know the feeling, between this and Samson’s over the last day or so I’ve been hard pressed to keep up while still getting my other daily routine stuff done too.

In general, a lot of quest reaction type stuff can be done this way.

Good deal, in that case, we’ve actually got a ton of flexibility.

Alessia is already a roamer then?

Yes. She’s pretty complex, actually. Countess of Leyawiin, but spends some time at home with dear old mom in Chorrol once a month or something to that effect. Also has, or had after the UOP does her in, a fairly busy social schedule in Leyawiin.

Hmm, maybe we don’t want to mess with her too much then, but her busy schedule could certainly be the talk of the folks at both castles from time to time, and mom’s still an option for mystery, especially about the always dining alone thing.

And I quote the UESP, ” Her deceased husband, Charus Valga, the hereditary Count Chorrol, was slain in battle against Nord clansmen from Skyrim.”

We could really have a little fun with an ambassador from the Skyrim coming to visit then, especially if his arrival demands a banquet… ;)

Or perhaps he/she/dad/somebody was a cousin/relative of the dead Count, so she keeps them because they reminder her of him, despite the fact that it’s painful for her.

Actually, it could well be that he’s descended from the Count’s side instead and wouldn’t have to change anything else except to perhaps make him that much more of a conflicted emotional roller coaster for her.

Don’t disagree, just trying to take advantage of what’s already in the lore. The Count’s a notorious drunk and the son’s a skooma addict, so what are you going to do with that, really.

Fair enough. I suppose that being always in the drink and having a son who’s addicted to drugs would certainly be expensive and make running a region that much harder, so I suppose it does open doors to all sorts of troubles with underlings essentially taking over and scheming to find ways to continue funding both while not destroying the treasury.

I’m just saying IC to fit in with the established heartlanders vs. Nords dynamic established by the game. It occurs to me that this guy could actually be from, say, Bravil or Chorrol, and could be one of our travellers.

You know, if it’s a noble who’s obsessed with mining interests that never pan out.. or a minor noble because his mining interests paid off enough to buy a title.. But, yes, IC/Bravil/Chorrol all work, and he’d definitely work as a traveler because he’d be alternating between his claim sites and the castle(s) nearest them at the least.

If we go down that route, we should go pretty minimalist, and confine most of these guys to the one cell or so, or else we’ll bog down. Let’s deal with the nobles first before we get really excited.

Indeed. If we were writing a book, having the whole army of castle-related staff would be great details that could be taken advantage of in a myriad of ways. But in this case we’re talking about a game that’s going to take a serious performance hit if we do the entire staff, especially if we give each one of them the attention to detail they’d all deserve. It’d be beautiful to behold, but painful to visit. Not to mention it’d make this mod take years to come to fruition. ;)

+1 on the Nord ambassador guy, except I don’t see any need for him to take off once the crisis is ended. Maybe he’s decided he likes Bruma enough to want to obtain permanent residence? His party being killed I don’t see him wanting to make the trip home alone.

Also, if he’s offered his blade in service during the defense of the city, he better get his butt out to the battlefield and participate. And if he dies, have a funeral or something for him in his honor. At the very least he would deserve a gravestone somewhere mentioning it.

Agreed, there’s no reason for him to leave afterward, especially if his huscarl and/or war hound are dead. Alternatively, one the crises is over, perhaps he elects to become a permanent ambassador between the two, assuming his survival to that point, naturally.

Perhaps his blade is being used to protect the city’s leadership within the castle rather than the city as a whole? Otherwise, he hardly needs be part of a castles mod, no?

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #60
August 23, 2010 at 5:22 pm

I don’t even know what a huscarl is ^.^
Do we want to bring in lore/stuff from other games?

avatar Comment by Conner #61
August 23, 2010 at 6:05 pm

Basically, they were the personal manservants of nobility and the professional soldiers/bodyguards, but they could also be courtiers in their own right, as opposed to the common conscripts or general castle staff. Here’s a wiki link to help explain. But it’s not lore from other games, housecarls are part of the lore from Norse and English history, which seems pretty applicable here, especially concerned the Nord.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #62
August 23, 2010 at 6:25 pm

Hanaisse: A “Hus-Carl” is litterally a “House-Man”, it’s the old Anglo-Nordic word for a retainer or bodyguard. Though I can’t remember the term being used in TES it’s perfectly appropriate for the Nords.

About the Ambassador: I think his name should be “Ragnar”, he should be in his early forties, and he absolutely has to have a beard. There’s so much you can do with this, he can make claims about how “Southern” Nords have gone soft and they all shave, others can ask if he keeps birds in it, etc. and it will make him instantly recognisable.

His Huscarl can be Snorri Skullshatter :D

I can think of plenty of reasons for him to stick around, especially if Burd is dead and the Countess gets “lonely”. So I don’t see that as an issue. TES is pretty medieval, and medieval ambassadors had to have a fair bit of autonomy because of difficulties in communication.

About Staff: I was thinking more in a few cases, such as a great lady having a made (why doesn’t Alessia Caro have one), or Ragnar’s Huscarl. I can easily find space for a couple of skivies, though.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #63
August 23, 2010 at 6:25 pm

Damn, Conner beat me.

avatar Comment by Dwip #64
August 23, 2010 at 6:39 pm

Hanaisse is hereby directed to correct her historical deficiencies.

:P

Messing around with 512 towers and stairs. Quite exciting.

Re: Nords –

I more or less concur with Sigurd on the subject, although maybe not so much with the beard thing – we’d need to import a beard mod or part of one, which could get annoying. Have yet to see one I like in any event.

I have just the axe for one or atother of them, too.

Hildara Mothril serves as Alessia Caro’s maid, too, I think. At least when traveling. Obviously the castles have servants, although astonishingly few for the size.

@Conner –

Oops, bet it could be fixed fairly easily. Just compare to what the default theme uses, eh?

Maybe and maybe not. The default WP theme is a pit of pain and despair. Especially the comment code.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #65
August 23, 2010 at 7:24 pm

I was thinking the big red one, or possibly the blond one from here:

http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8393

Maybe put the NPC together and see how he looks?

avatar Comment by Dwip #66
August 23, 2010 at 7:37 pm

Ok. Main problem I see is the need to make a custom race. How you get voice to hook up to that is something I’d need to determine, and it may or may not break a whole bunch of dialogue. Could be cool, I grant you, but the trade-offs are going to be significant.

avatar Comment by Dwip #67
August 23, 2010 at 7:44 pm

Yeah, ok. I had a look at it, and the technical aspects are actually pretty simple as far as adding the race. The problem is that ALL the Bruma dialogue and rumors are tied to race, so you’d break all of that. I’m not really frantic about recreating half of NQDBruma for one guy.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #68
August 23, 2010 at 7:50 pm

make the beard an amulet, or a ring and never have him wear gloves.

Should work fine.

avatar Comment by Dwip #69
August 23, 2010 at 8:00 pm

Doh. Yeah, that would work.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #70
August 23, 2010 at 8:55 pm

Or give him custom armour with “show amulet” checked.

You should have an esp with a tower in your inbox dwip. Forgot to mention that the cell is “0towermockup”, i.e. right at the top of your list of interiors.

avatar Comment by Conner #71
August 23, 2010 at 9:07 pm

About the Ambassador: I think his name should be “Ragnar”, he should be in his early forties, and he absolutely has to have a beard. There’s so much you can do with this, he can make claims about how “Southern” Nords have gone soft and they all shave, others can ask if he keeps birds in it, etc. and it will make him instantly recognisable.

His Huscarl can be Snorri Skullshatter :D

This was just a passing thought for you, huh? :P :D
Snorri sounds awfully familiar, where have I read that name recently?

I can think of plenty of reasons for him to stick around, especially if Burd is dead and the Countess gets “lonely”. So I don’t see that as an issue. TES is pretty medieval, and medieval ambassadors had to have a fair bit of autonomy because of difficulties in communication.

I concur entirely.

About Staff: I was thinking more in a few cases, such as a great lady having a made (why doesn’t Alessia Caro have one), or Ragnar’s Huscarl. I can easily find space for a couple of skivies, though.

It would be a nice touch and go a long way toward realism for a few of our courtiers to have their own men-at-arms or handmaidens, especially the young ladies who aren’t intended to serve in their respective countess’ personal entourage themselves (regarding the handmaidens that is) and amongst the male courtiers, particularly those with battle experience or high rank, it would be very typical to have a personal man servant or bodyguard of their own. As long as we’re throwing in a couple of castle staff to serve all the guests collectively so they don’t need their own full entourages. Of course, as shared servants, the courtiers wouldn’t likely extend much trust to them and might, in some cases, pay them “tips” for information about other courtiers on a rather regular basis. Within the castle, those shared servants would be almost as knowledgeable as the beggars are outside the castle walls.

Damn, Conner beat me.

I do what I can. :P

Hanaisse is hereby directed to correct her historical deficiencies.

In her defense, we can’t all major in history in college and some of us just don’t read nearly enough fiction… I might suggest to her though, in the case of huscarls, The Icemark Chronicles. The series is a little dry at first, but by the second chapter or so of the first book it’ll start to get quite interesting and don’t be too surprised to find yourself at the end of the third book before you realize it. ;)

Obviously the castles have servants, although astonishingly few for the size.

Hmm, I wonder if the folks at Bethesda weren’t trying to specifically de-emphasis the servants and staff of their castles for some reason. Perhaps it’s the notion of “good servants are invisible” or just not wanting a slew of unnecessary NPCs. :shrug:

Maybe and maybe not. The default WP theme is a pit of pain and despair. Especially the comment code.

Sounds a bit like what folks like to say about Smaug… still, whatever it looks like, the default does work for the pagination of comments, so… :shrug:

make the beard an amulet, or a ring and never have him wear gloves.

There ya’ go! Good solution, Sigurd! :)

avatar Comment by Sigurd #72
August 23, 2010 at 9:15 pm

Conner, been reading David Gemmell recently? “Snorri” is a Nordic name he uses fairly regularly, and it’s a nice little in-joke for me because of that.

Oh, yeah, and medieval history is my thing. You should check out my post on why Kvatch castle can’t be restored (because of the charred roof beams and cracked iron rivits) on Beth’s main Oblivion forum.

Point of interest: The stairs I sent Dwip turn the “right” way, the ones I showed you in Battlehorn turn the “wrong” way.

avatar Comment by Dwip #73
August 23, 2010 at 9:42 pm

In her defense, we can’t all major in history in college and some of us just don’t read nearly enough fiction…

THERE CAN BE NO EXCUSE.

:P

(more of a Bernard Cornwell fan myself, but hey)

I had totally forgotten about the whole right/wrong way thing. I’m better than that. Argh.

Just got the stairs email. I’ll have a look at it.

avatar Comment by Samson #74
August 23, 2010 at 9:49 pm

Obviously the castles have servants, although astonishingly few for the size.

This sort of thing is probably for the same reason the cities in general don’t feel very populated. You’re seeing a representative sampling that the game engine is capable of giving you.

Of course, these aren’t real cities. They’re just not large enough even by a liberal definition. And their castles are more like fortified outposts. The game suffers greatly from having reduced the scale of so many things. Damn those XBox users :)

Now Daggerfall cities were immense. Large enough I can recall having gotten lost within them. If only Cyrodiil were about 10x the size it is now with real city sprawl and a province that actually felt as large as it’s implied to be. Ah well.

Anyone ever checked to see how Sheogorath’s beard works?

avatar Comment by Sigurd #75
August 23, 2010 at 9:54 pm

Sheogorath’s beard is his tounge

:P

Custom race, no go. There are several “equippable beards” out there, irrc they force use of the tail slot and are hidden from the play so it lookms like you just “have” a beard. Why Oblivion doesn’t have beards though, I have no idea. They used two seperate meshes for the teath and distinguish between male and female ears, but no second piece of “hair” for a beard.

Weird.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #76
August 23, 2010 at 10:04 pm

FYI: medieval spiral stairs actually turned both ways, and the defensive bonus was not that high, because you still can’t see the other guy until he skewers you.

The tendancy to turn a particular way probably has more to do with the way they wer built, using geometric arcs.

avatar Comment by Conner #77
August 23, 2010 at 10:52 pm

Or give him custom armour with “show amulet” checked.

That’d work too.

Conner, been reading David Gemmell recently? “Snorri” is a Nordic name he uses fairly regularly, and it’s a nice little in-joke for me because of that.

I have… relatively recently anyway. I tend to read just about everything I can get my hands on in general, but medieval fantasy/fiction is my first preference. I’ve always been an avid reader in a big way. My wife and I usually hit the library every two weeks or so to exchange our current lot of books and she usually has 2-3 books while I’m usually exchanging 3-5 books. :chuckle:

Oh, yeah, and medieval history is my thing. You should check out my post on why Kvatch castle can’t be restored (because of the charred roof beams and cracked iron rivits) on Beth’s main Oblivion forum.

I shall have to now, if I can ever find time between the high paced postings between here and Samson’s once again. ;)
Medieval history is my favorite too, it was a fascinating period of history, ranging from late Roman empire all the way through Elizabethan times, so much happened… ;)

Point of interest: The stairs I sent Dwip turn the “right” way, the ones I showed you in Battlehorn turn the “wrong” way.

I had totally forgotten about the whole right/wrong way thing. I’m better than that. Argh.

Doesn’t the “right way” depend on whether the castle’s owners are right or left handed anyway?

FYI: medieval spiral stairs actually turned both ways, and the defensive bonus was not that high, because you still can’t see the other guy until he skewers you.

The tendancy to turn a particular way probably has more to do with the way they wer built, using geometric arcs.

This too.

In her defense, we can’t all major in history in college and some of us just don’t read nearly enough fiction…

THERE CAN BE NO EXCUSE.

:lol: I’ll just leave her to her own defense on this one in that case. ;)

(more of a Bernard Cornwell fan myself, but hey)

Bah, I read ’em all. :D

This sort of thing is probably for the same reason the cities in general don’t feel very populated. You’re seeing a representative sampling that the game engine is capable of giving you.

That’s kind of what I was saying about nonessential NPCs unfortunately.

Sheogorath’s beard is his tounge

Doesn’t that get in the way when he talks?

Custom race, no go. There are several “equippable beards” out there, irrc they force use of the tail slot and are hidden from the play so it lookms like you just “have” a beard. Why Oblivion doesn’t have beards though, I have no idea. They used two seperate meshes for the teath and distinguish between male and female ears, but no second piece of “hair” for a beard.

Weird.

I fully agree. As someone who wears a beard myself, I usually try to give my first character one too in any game that lets me customize my character’s face as such and this was one of many games that disappointed me in that regard initially too. But I can’t say that it’s worth adding a mod just so my character will have one, especially considering how rarely in-game I can even see my character’s front side at all…

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #78
August 24, 2010 at 12:04 am

College? What’s that?

*sits in a corner with a Wiki*

avatar Comment by Conner #79
August 24, 2010 at 12:15 am

College is that place people go in huge groups in order to pay thousands of dollars for a chintzy piece of paper that proves they wasted 4+ years learning to think the way that others want them to. Nearly every major town has at least one of them these days, some major cities have a multitude of them. In some places they’re referred to as “University”, such as the one located in the Imperial City. ;)

avatar Comment by Samson #80
August 24, 2010 at 5:32 am

And they’re sources of delicious propaganda too :)

avatar Comment by Dwip #81
August 24, 2010 at 10:41 pm

I’ll have you know that my piece of paper is actually quite nicely mounted, as it happens. I’ll have to report back on the status of piece of paper #2.

I’ve updated the main post with some outline details of the NPCs we’ve got thus far. Don’t think I missed any, but somebody tell me if I’m wrong.

Also, didn’t put down the scamp mage dropout, because I don’t think we nailed down a specific location for him. Strikes me as a Bruma or Cheydinhal type.

Also, fleshing out the Gellius Terentius thing, thinking the GF NPC could legitimately care about him and want to clean him up, and the companion NPC could actually want him to get debauched as a way to get more money/influence/whatever. Only cast the whole thing in terms of money and power. He accuses her of being a greedy money-sucking opportunist, she accuses him of basically same.

Or flip the characterizations, of course, but it makes a bit more sense to me this way.

So far we still need:

2 more Anvil NPCs
1 more Bravil NPC
2 more Bruma NPCs
2 more Cheydinhal NPCs
2 more Chorrol NPCs
2 more Leyawiin NPCs
2 more floating NPCs

Which is to say that we’re halfway there.

avatar Comment by Conner #82
August 25, 2010 at 1:14 am

I’ll have you know that my piece of paper is actually quite nicely mounted, as it happens. I’ll have to report back on the status of piece of paper #2.

Well, who could blame you for trying to make your incredibly expensive piece of paper at least appear presentable? Piece #2, however, indicates that you’ve been fully sucked into the system… :P

I’ve updated the main post with some outline details of the NPCs we’ve got thus far. Don’t think I missed any, but somebody tell me if I’m wrong.

Saw that late last night and definitely approve of having it all consolidated like that so we can see where we’re still at more readily. :)
Of course you’re wrong, about something… just not sure what you’re wrong about, I believe you’ve got it all covered so far. ;)

Also, didn’t put down the scamp mage dropout, because I don’t think we nailed down a specific location for him.

No, we didn’t at all, in fact, I think he could work fine at any of the castles that’s not too close to IC itself. (Whether we go with the “who needs the academy” or the false claims to having graduated from the academy, he wouldn’t want to be close enough to be constantly dodging real academy types.)

Also, fleshing out the Gellius Terentius thing, thinking the GF NPC could legitimately care about him and want to clean him up, and the companion NPC could actually want him to get debauched as a way to get more money/influence/whatever. Only cast the whole thing in terms of money and power. He accuses her of being a greedy money-sucking opportunist, she accuses him of basically same.

Or flip the characterizations, of course, but it makes a bit more sense to me this way

Yes, this could be handled either way, but I agree with you that it’d make more sense that he’s got corrupt buddies who don’t want to see their party end (especially if he’s inadvertently their source of income) and are trying to cast her as the gold-digger while she’s trying to clean him up so he can see what they really are doing to him.

we’re halfway there

Sounds good to me! Particularly when you consider we’ve only been at this for a couple of days now… Unfortunately, I’m not so good at recalling in-game personalities nor which city is which, but if you want to help me out on general dynamics of the places we’re still needing characters for (and it looks like everywhere still), I can probably come up with something for the rest. On the other hand, since we’ve covered all but one slot in Bravil, I’ve already got it fairly well recalled.. isn’t Bravil basically the home of the main HQ for the Dark Brotherhood? Maybe our fourth courtier there is someone with ties to the brotherhood? (Not to step on Samson’s toes with ABR, since he did such a great job with it, but, it is already there.) They’d also have to have a legitimate “front” operation that they represent openly while they conduct a whisper lobby for the brotherhood’s interests in the Count’s ear.

avatar Comment by Dwip #83
August 25, 2010 at 1:45 am

Well, who could blame you for trying to make your incredibly expensive piece of paper at least appear presentable? Piece #2, however, indicates that you’ve been fully sucked into the system… :P

Actually, they made it presentable for me. 5 years of tuition got me something, anyway. :P

And no, not quite fully sucked in. Some of my coworkers thought I should get my PhD and teach. THAT would be getting sucked in. ;)

Re: Dark Brotherhood, Cheydinhal’s the real home. IIRC the only thing about Bravil is one of their guys lives there. That said, maybe a reasonable idea for the other Cheydinhal guy? Samson probably remembers the DB lore here better than I do.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #84
August 25, 2010 at 12:44 pm

Conner read my mind. I was just thinking of a possible DB tie-in, but here’s why I discounted it.

It’ll once again put us in the dilemma of what part of the DB quest line do you tie him in to. And what if someone isn’t playing the DB quest? It’ll make no sense to them. So, alternate idea – a Morag Tong or Cammona Tong tie-in. Freedom to make up anything we want. A visiting shady noble (Orvas Dren?) from Morrowind needs you to go find out what happened to a shipment of contraband somewhere. Maybe place a camp in some remote spot where you find all the bandits dead and need to track down the killers.

Also, how about a House Hlaalu floating noble? Or any noble from other ES Series?

Throwing this idea out there; someone wants a unique bottle of wine and sends you to several dungeons/locations to find it. (They don’t all have to be bad people ;) )

Re; Bravil and DB – the relation Conner may be thinking of is the Mother Statue.

avatar Comment by Conner #85
August 25, 2010 at 1:53 pm

Actually, they made it presentable for me. 5 years of tuition got me something, anyway. :P

Wow, so for your thousands of dollars and five year time donation, they sprung for a frame for your piece of paper. Nice. Not typical, but nice. ;)

And no, not quite fully sucked in. Some of my coworkers thought I should get my PhD and teach. THAT would be getting sucked in. ;)

Ouch, they’re serious gluttons for punishment, eh? :D

Re: Dark Brotherhood, Cheydinhal’s the real home. IIRC the only thing about Bravil is one of their guys lives there. That said, maybe a reasonable idea for the other Cheydinhal guy? Samson probably remembers the DB lore here better than I do.

:shrug: Did I mention that when it comes to associating cities in this game world with their respective dynamics I’ve got mild Alzheimer’s? …I just can’t remember… ;)
Fair enough, I’ll bow to Samson’s well demonstrated expertise on this matter.

It’ll once again put us in the dilemma of what part of the DB quest line do you tie him in to. And what if someone isn’t playing the DB quest? It’ll make no sense to them.

Well, yes and no. I was thinking that, even aside from the coolness Dwip said we can do with quest issues, even if the player’s not doing anything with the brotherhood at all they’re likely to have at least run across the rumors of deaths in the name of the mother so this NPCs whisper campaign just wouldn’t be much more than lobbyists in the real world trying to get convicted killers like Charles Manson pardoned. :shrug:

a Morag Tong or Cammona Tong tie-in. Freedom to make up anything we want.

Um, okay, I suppose those could work instead, but someone else would have to come up with info for those since I don’t recall either name off-hand. :(

A visiting shady noble (Orvas Dren?) from Morrowind needs you to go find out what happened to a shipment of contraband somewhere. Maybe place a camp in some remote spot where you find all the bandits dead and need to track down the killers.

Hmm, unofficially sanctioned bandits? Now that does strike of court worthy intrigue. I like it. :)

Also, how about a House Hlaalu floating noble? Or any noble from other ES Series?

Hlaalu? ES? :(

Throwing this idea out there; someone wants a unique bottle of wine and sends you to several dungeons/locations to find it. (They don’t all have to be bad people ;) )

That’s not a bad notion. Though, generally someone who doesn’t have a “bad side” might find typical life of a courtier more than a bit disturbing, but depending on which court, it’s quite feasible. I’ve often wondered why powerful people need to hire out mercenaries all the time to run their petty errands, especially when it’s clearly something they want to do out of boredom and are obviously more powerful fight/mage types than the person their hiring, but every RPG has that sort of scenario in it… :shrug:

Re; Bravil and DB – the relation Conner may be thinking of is the Mother Statue.

Um, okay, we can go with that excuse.. :D

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #86
August 25, 2010 at 4:21 pm

Er, is it just me or did the formatting of this thread just get all f’d up?

avatar Comment by Dwip #87
August 25, 2010 at 4:24 pm

Per the WordPress thread, I’m currently attempting to create a comment format that is not an abomination in the eyes of man and God. As you can see, this has not always been entirely successful. Work is ongoing.

avatar Comment by Conner #88
August 25, 2010 at 4:26 pm

Looks like the pagination thing is working now, and the comment formatting seems okay too. :shrug:

Nice avatar, Hanaisse. :)

avatar Comment by Dwip #89
August 25, 2010 at 4:30 pm

It’s getting there. I’m trying to make it stop wasting so much space, but it seems to be ignoring me.

If we could keep the WP discussion in the WP thread, please.

avatar Comment by Conner #90
August 25, 2010 at 5:03 pm

You know, I honestly thought we were doing really good, considering those involved, in keeping the WP discussion restricted to the designated thread… ;)

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #91
August 25, 2010 at 7:56 pm

Ok, back on topic. Sneak peak preview.

UpperClass 01 set

(From green/gold trim to blue/silver trim)

I’m going to make several colour combinations for each set. If someone wants or feels an NPC deserves a unique set, let me know.

avatar Comment by Dwip #92
August 25, 2010 at 8:02 pm

I approve, although I’m somewhat unexcited about blue as a color scheme – there are already two other blue outfits, after all. Good work either way, though.

I’m pretty certain our wannabe vamp guy needs a set of black with red trim something. Or black with white. Something that screams “I bought from Dracula’s Goodwill bin!”

avatar Comment by Samson #93
August 25, 2010 at 8:44 pm

Re: Dark Brotherhood, Cheydinhal’s the real home. IIRC the only thing about Bravil is one of their guys lives there. That said, maybe a reasonable idea for the other Cheydinhal guy? Samson probably remembers the DB lore here better than I do.

It’s reasonably well established that the count of Cheydinhal knows the sanctuary exists in his city. The game’s loading screens heavily imply someone is either intimidating or outright bribing the count. So Cheydinhal is the place for shenanigans like that.

Even though Bravil is where the Night Mother statue is, it’s well established the people in the city have no clue what she’s for and use her as a good luck charm. I bent lore here a bit by putting a sanctuary under the Lonely Suitor, but it isn’t entirely out of the question if it’s kept secret enough.

It’ll once again put us in the dilemma of what part of the DB quest line do you tie him in to.

He doesn’t need to be tied to the quest line at all. If he’s acting as a front man for the organization then he’d make sense being kept around at least up until the Purification quest, at which point he can either quietly slip away or end up a victim himself. If he quietly slips away, then it would be reasonable to have him show back up once the player eliminates the traitor and re-establishes the Cheydinhal sanctuary.

You aren’t going to get away with having Morag Tong presence in Cyrodiil. Both it and the Dark Brotherhood are outlawed here, and the Cammona Tong isn’t in the habit of doing assassinations.

avatar Comment by Samson #94
August 25, 2010 at 8:45 pm

…. bribing the count to keep quiet about it that is.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #95
August 25, 2010 at 8:51 pm

Yeah, it’s unexciting, but there’s only so many colours to choose from. :) Finished a red with silver trim 01 set also.

Dracula’s cast-off coming up.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #96
August 25, 2010 at 9:09 pm

I like the Blue – remember people, Blue is expensive.

Oh, and re: the “piece of paper” comments, watch because I’m about to start on my third one :P.

avatar Comment by Conner #97
August 25, 2010 at 9:21 pm

I like the Blue – remember people, Blue is expensive.

I also like the blue ones best, but the silver was nice too and I do agree with Dwip that our vamp wannabe is going to be wanting to wear goth-ish colors.

It’s reasonably well established that the count of Cheydinhal knows the sanctuary exists in his city. The game’s loading screens heavily imply someone is either intimidating or outright bribing the count. So Cheydinhal is the place for shenanigans like that.

I must’ve been thinking of Cheydinhal then because this is what I was remembering. My bad, told y’all I’m not good with remembering who’s who or which city is which. :shrug:

He doesn’t need to be tied to the quest line at all. If he’s acting as a front man for the organization then he’d make sense being kept around at least up until the Purification quest, at which point he can either quietly slip away or end up a victim himself. If he quietly slips away, then it would be reasonable to have him show back up once the player eliminates the traitor and re-establishes the Cheydinhal sanctuary.

Yes, this is what I was thinking too.

You aren’t going to get away with having Morag Tong presence in Cyrodiil. Both it and the Dark Brotherhood are outlawed here, and the Cammona Tong isn’t in the habit of doing assassinations.

Well, being outlawed hasn’t made the brotherhood presence any less existent so I’m not sure that in itself is enough reason that we couldn’t do it. :shrug:

Oh, and re: the “piece of paper” comments, watch because I’m about to start on my third one :P.

My deepest condolences and sympathies. ;)

avatar Comment by Samson #98
August 25, 2010 at 9:40 pm

Well the point I was trying to make is that the Morag Tong are operating legally in Morrowind, so there’d be no real reason for them to do so in Cyrodiil. Besides, the DB would probably seek to wipe them out if they tried. While I’m sure that makes for interesting mod content, it’s not exactly what the castles have in mind.

There’s also the small matter that Morrowind is mostly an ash heap now after the Oblivion crisis and according to the Infernal City novel, it has about a year or so to live after the start of the 4th era before it’s utterly destroyed.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #99
August 25, 2010 at 10:10 pm

He doesn’t need to be tied to the quest line at all. If he’s acting as a front man for the organization then he’d make sense being kept around at least up until the Purification quest, at which point he can either quietly slip away or end up a victim himself. If he quietly slips away, then it would be reasonable to have him show back up once the player eliminates the traitor and re-establishes the Cheydinhal sanctuary.

Sorry, but that just proves my point. More to the point of how many scripts does one want to do to ensure meeting this guy makes sense in every possible way? If one isn’t doing the DB quest line, then what? If one starts the DB quest line much later after meeting him, then what? If one is already the listener, then what?
These are the questions that run through my mind. I’m not arguing it, just wanting to ensure continuity. If no one else sees it an issue, then do it.

On another note, has anyone else noticed the UC04 shirt and the UChighwayman shirt are the same, with less detailing? And what the hell is an Upper Class highwayman anyway?

As seen here, in Drac wannabe’s new threads.

avatar Comment by Conner #100
August 26, 2010 at 12:17 am

@Samson:
I see, haven’t looked into the books or the previous games at all so I didn’t know.

@Hanaisse:
Being that I’m not the one doing the scripting/AI stuff… naturally I don’t see it as a problem. :P

I hadn’t noticed, sorry.
:shrug: Perhaps an Upper Class Highwayman is a highwayman who happens to be a perfect gentleman while he robs you and your coach? Or perhaps it’s a hobbyist highwayman who’s really an aristocrat kid with too much time on his hands?

As usual, you do fine work. :)

avatar Comment by Samson #101
August 26, 2010 at 12:25 am

Sorry, but that just proves my point. More to the point of how many scripts does one want to do to ensure meeting this guy makes sense in every possible way?

Who needs scripts? If he’s mostly for show, and mostly used with dialogue, that’s just dialogue condition checks. They’re not difficult to set up, just tedious and sometimes prone to the CS making stupid errors while constructing them.

If you haven’t done the DB yet, he’s just another guy with shadowy purposes. Much like a lot of the other guild people are if you’re not in those factions.

If you’re currently in the DB, maybe at some point he tells you who he is, or you find out from Ocheeva or something.

If the Purification is done, then perhaps he’s dead or left the city for his own safety.

After becoming Listener, he’d obviously not try to hide himself from you.

I don’t see the problem really other than needing to write extra lines for the guy.

avatar Comment by Conner #102
August 26, 2010 at 12:29 am

Well, if that’s all we’re talking about, extra lines aren’t a problem. (At least as far as coming up with them, I have no idea how they’re put into the game for the design side of things once they’ve been come up with “on paper”.)

avatar Comment by Dwip #103
August 26, 2010 at 3:09 am

Like the Dracula threads, although what’s he going to use for pants?

Somewhat ambivilent about the DB noble guy. Workable enough, but what are we going to do with him?

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #104
August 26, 2010 at 11:56 am

Ok, I had the wrong terminology. When I said scripts I meant conditions. To me its the same thing since I’ve never written up dialogue. Since I won’t be writing up this dialogue either then we all agree it’s no problem to put in several if/then conditions on the guy. Just trying to point out it needs extra care.

The DB guy himself doesn’t really need to do anything. He can just be around for ambiance and amusing side conversations. Set him up so he wanders over to the Sanctuary for several hours a day and make it seem like he’s important. *shrug* Maybe work a few lines of important information relating to other guest quests?

Pants? Who needs pants? :P (Alright, but any black pants will do. They’ll be made but just wasn’t worthy enough to show off)

avatar Comment by Conner #105
August 26, 2010 at 1:07 pm

Scripts, Conditions, etc are all Dwip’s department on this project. If he’s okay with it then so am I. ;)

Agreed, he doesn’t have to actually have separate quests, he can be just a few extra DB based lines of dialogue and otherwise another in the cast of characters who make up the court life within that particular castle.

:shrug: I actually spend quite a bit of time wearing just pants, but just a shirt might indeed look odd, especially for a vamp wannabe… :P

avatar Comment by Sigurd #106
August 26, 2010 at 5:40 pm

I’m currently fully dressed, I’m also currently trying to work on Anvil, this one is proving tricky, because the “real” castle is a little fairy-tale thing and the inside is just cavernous.

How many rooms do we need for this one, I have 4-6 at the moment.

avatar Comment by Dwip #107
August 26, 2010 at 5:43 pm

That sounds about right.

Are those stair meshes working out, btw?

avatar Comment by Sigurd #108
August 26, 2010 at 5:47 pm

I’m just about to have a play, actually, I’ve just put the Anvil stair tower in, so I’ll let you know.

avatar Comment by Conner #109
August 26, 2010 at 6:39 pm

Today I’m fully dressed too, had company over earlier. ;)

Wait, surely you’re not saying the entire castle is only 4-6 rooms inside?

avatar Comment by Sigurd #110
August 26, 2010 at 6:42 pm

Hmmm

I like the open top door, I can find a use for that, in gate houses. The stairs themselves are good, but there are a couple of things:

1. I think they could be a bit chunkier, they feel a little insubstantial for stone stairs.

2. When I try to make a 180 turn it doesn’t work because the meshes don’t line up, if each step was slightly taller that presumably wouldn’t be a problem.

The landings are ok, but I would prefer wooden boards because that’s what the floors in the towers are made out of. I’m at home with an unclean install right now, so I can’t check, but I think they might “wash out” the tower, wooden floors would break the look up. One final point, you could use the narrow section floor texture for the steps, like in the barracks room.

Sorry to be so critical.

I really do like the stairs – and the top tower especially, I want to use that for my other project!

avatar Comment by Sigurd #111
August 26, 2010 at 8:01 pm

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Chorrol2.jpg

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Chorrol1.jpg

Chorrol side and top

At the top of the second picture you can see the common area, slightly L-Shaped, the bottom of the picture shows the 2×2 room for the Countess’ unwelcome inlaws.

This floors has three other rooms, 1×2, 1×1 and 1×1, the other 2 floors have 1×2 rooms as well.

total rooms: 6

avatar Comment by Dwip #112
August 26, 2010 at 9:19 pm

I like criticism, for the record. Helps me improve things.

– The idea behind the tower top, by the by, was so you could hook the towers straight up to one level or another and avoid the annoyance of a seperate cell for the tower. I’ve seen I have a bit of cleanup to do in that regard, but nothing particularly serious. Should be usable as-is.

Similarly, as I said in the email, it’s not really all that hard for me to make a mid-tower version.

– I can do slightly chunkier stairs. Kind of a pain in the ass, but doable.

– 180 degree turns work, and everything was designed for them. I’ll send you an example esp in a while.

– I can do the wooden landings, and I’ll look at the other texture.

And if you’d like to use the meshes for your other project, feel free.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #113
August 26, 2010 at 10:49 pm

Looking good, Sigurd *thumbsup*

avatar Comment by Conner #114
August 27, 2010 at 12:30 am

Second Hanaisse’s comment. It’s looking good. :)

avatar Comment by Samson #115
August 27, 2010 at 12:36 am

Set him up so he wanders over to the Sanctuary for several hours a day and make it seem like he’s important.

That we can’t do. Not because it doesn’t make sense, because it does, but because that would mean having to edit the sanctuary entry/exit points. They have a rather specific script attached that only allows a select few NPCs to come and go.

Although it could be reasonably faked I guess with a script on the NPC that fires off a moveto at the end of the packages sending him to/from the sanc.

avatar Comment by Mael #116
August 27, 2010 at 12:39 am

What about an abnormally intelligent goblin merchant, ala Baldur’s Gate series?

avatar Comment by Conner #117
August 27, 2010 at 12:43 am

I bet no one would particularly care/notice if he was scripted to just do his vanishing act from a room within the sanctuary that the PC isn’t occupying so no one could see that he always just sort of teleports between the two rather than really actually making the trek. But, even without making appearances at the sanctuary, perhaps he gets his info in as mysterious a manner as the vamp did when you first get invited to join the brotherhood and his job isn’t to deal with brotherhood members but to whisper brotherhood agenda to the nobility. :shrug:

avatar Comment by Conner #118
August 27, 2010 at 12:45 am

But, Mael, why would anyone want to buy abnormally intelligent goblins? :ducking:
And, on a more serious note, merchants are rarely (at best) among the regular courtiers of any castle…

avatar Comment by Sigurd #119
August 27, 2010 at 4:11 am

I like criticism, for the record. Helps me improve things.

– The idea behind the tower top, by the by, was so you could hook the towers straight up to one level or another and avoid the annoyance of a seperate cell for the tower. I’ve seen I have a bit of cleanup to do in that regard, but nothing particularly serious. Should be usable as-is.

Similarly, as I said in the email, it’s not really all that hard for me to make a mid-tower version.

– I can do slightly chunkier stairs. Kind of a pain in the ass, but doable.

– 180 degree turns work, and everything was designed for them. I’ll send you an example esp in a while.

– I can do the wooden landings, and I’ll look at the other texture.

And if you’d like to use the meshes for your other project, feel free.

I like the tower top, but I do see there’s something funny with the mesh seams, still perfectly usable. A mid door version would be useful, but not essential, it’s unlikely I’ll yoke the tower in two places, it gets too compicated with inersected doors.

The 180 degree turns thing I’m struggling to see, I mean a continuous stair without a landing.

I like wooden landings, with a beam bisecting the tower and another coming out at right angles from the central pillar. The stone one would be good for dungeons or something, but it looks a bit bleak in residential towers, especially so if I used my plastered version I showed in some of the early pics.

If slightly cunkier stairs are an issue don’t bother too much, it will not be noticable with a chunkier wooden landing with the cross-beam I mentioned, I think.

avatar Comment by Dwip #120
August 27, 2010 at 4:30 am

Well.

I am at this very moment about halfway through rebuilding the entire set. Fixed a bunch of problems with the two tower pieces (and will probably need to fix some more – I think the collision is FUBAR). Just got done creating the basic version of a better, chunkier, better-textured stair set and landing.

Also, if you’re going to need versions of the tower pieces that hook up to the wide halls instead of the narrow halls, now is probably the time to tell me so I can make the edits.

If you want a continuous 180 set, I can probably get there from here, but I’ll have to tinker a bit. Let me see what I can do with it tomorrow.

I think we’ll end up with both stone and wooden landings as choices.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #121
August 27, 2010 at 9:23 am

Yes, wide hall versions would be good, if you do bottom versions as well you’ll fix a deficiency in the basic vanilla set as well. Two and Three door versions might be an idea as well, if possible.

The multiple door versions will allow me to use the tower doors instead of the external doors.

Some times I like to project towers into rooms, but for thses castles I don’t think I’ll bother because of the existing tardisism.

One thing though, the landings etc. need to work at 45 degrees as well as 0, 90, etc. so that I can reach two doors with one landing. That shouldn’t be an issue so long as you leave a little overlap.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #122
August 27, 2010 at 10:03 am

Thought about file paths:

Wouldn’t it be better to make it, for example:

meshes/AFK_Castles/Architechure/dwip?

Otherwise, when I start adding stuff we’ll get:

meshes/dwip/AFK_Castles/Architechure/Sigurd/

when I start adding stuff.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #123
August 27, 2010 at 10:25 am

Report on Cheydenhal:

Will be able to fit in quite a large guest wing *below* the current Private Quarters.

Incidentally, this castle is “fixable” in terms of space, I could cram a 3×3 piece on the back, this castle may also be what the angled castle tower pieces were for, linking this weird castle together.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #124
August 27, 2010 at 1:24 pm

Does Farwil have a bedroom inCheydinhal?

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #125
August 27, 2010 at 2:05 pm

He doesn’t appear to have a designated bedroom in the castle, only in the Knights of the Thorn lodge, per the UESP wiki.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #126
August 27, 2010 at 2:56 pm

Time to toss out some more ideas so here goes;

Florius Canstavo: Floating; Altmer male; Elder Council representative who’s job it is to check on the Imperial Army resources including that of all city guards. If you get his disposition high enough he’ll spill gossip about Chancellor Ocato’s affairs (political and women).

Admiral Graysin Umbranox: Anvil; Imperial male; a direct descendant of Commodore Fasil Umbranox, an ancestor of the present Corvus Umbranox. Of the Imperial Navy and very proud of his accomplishments. Quest: He’ll send you on a hunt for the rumored treasure the Bronze Skull. He hands you a map and off you go to several dungeons, finding clues that lead back to the treasure hidden all along in a barrel in the Anvil Castle dungeon. He gives you a 2000 septim reward.

Colin Pinder: Anvil; Imperial male; the Kvatch refugee, tied in based on UESP Wiki quote “Sources show it was a major settlement when sacked by the Camoran Usurper in the 3E 249. During this assault, Antus Pinder led the defense of the city, and despite being defeated gravely, was given a statue in Kvatch to remember his courage and spirit.” as a descendant of Antus. Constantly bemoaning the Kvatch seige one soon realizes he’s a cowardly fop doing nothing to aid his home as his forefather did. Quest: I dunno.

Arim Relph : Chorrol; Redguard male; owns a horse breeding dynasty in Hammerfell. Quest: Is tired of traveling so sends the player on a hunt for the best breed in Cyrodiil. Must travel to all city stables (this will add dialogue to all stable owners) to inquire about their horses. Wild goose hunt for stable owners to refer player to other stables, eventually leading to where we all know the best horses are – Cheydinhal. Once there they can be told the last horse was just sold to (some generic NPC) (may be easier if they are in a settlement somewhere rather than a city). Find the NPC and convince him to sell you the horse (personality helps or raise disposition). It will cost you 3000 septims. If you don’t have the money go back to Arim and he will give it to you. Rather than actually getting a horse which screws around with horses you already own, the NPC gives you a deed that you pass back to Arim. If you paid for it yourself he will reward you 4000 septims (cost of horse + 1000 extra for your time and trouble). The money can vary, just an example.

Calida Benis: Bruma; Nord female; noble from Rifton, Skyrim. Quest: Scandal! She’s got her eye on Arentus Falvius, the Chapel Primate, and hangs out there for several hours during the day, while Olav has his eye on her. Sappy love triangle ensues. Send notes back and forth. She, of course, has no interest in a lowly Inn owner. After some time, enter Storig Mason, her real betrothed from Rifton, whom she had an argument with and left to come to Bruma. More sappy intrigue between the four of them until she finally makes up with Storig, once you collect enough gold nuggets (the player has to find these themself – tie in with the guy who has mining interests and can tell you where a gold mine is, if you can catch him in Bruma) and run down to Red Diamond Jewelry to have Hamlof make a ring out of the gold and a special diamond Storig gave you. Return the ring and receive 500 septim reward. Further conversation after that with either Calida or Storig have them happily planning their marriage while remaining around Bruma for the atmosphere, Arentus relieved of the pressure of her flirtations, and Olav depressed and moaning.

(Long read, can’t help it, this blog is anorexic)
Edit; So, weird, apparently this blog doesn’t like to show anything captured between greater than and less than symbols.

avatar Comment by Dwip #127
August 27, 2010 at 3:46 pm

Some year I’m going to make a variable width version of this theme. That’s not going to be today, however. Today is stairs.

Yes, wide hall versions would be good, if you do bottom versions as well you’ll fix a deficiency in the basic vanilla set as well. Two and Three door versions might be an idea as well, if possible.

This is all easily doable except the multi-door stuff. As it happens, the stairs themselves occupy enough space that the only things that fit in are the single door and the 2 door angled pieces. If I don’t have to touch the 2 door angled piece at all, the happier I’m going to be. I can probably create a 2 doors at 90 degrees piece, but that’s as good as it’s ever going to get. Even that’s going to require some redesign work.

One thing though, the landings etc. need to work at 45 degrees as well as 0, 90, etc. so that I can reach two doors with one landing. That shouldn’t be an issue so long as you leave a little overlap.

It’s possible to get a pair of doors at 90 degrees working just fine as long as you angle the stairs right – these are big, 170 degree landings. If you want two doors at each level I’m going to need to create the pieces for it, however.

Also I’ve done some testing and realized that my current design just isn’t quite working for making the landings optional. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

@Hanaisse –

Florius Canstavo

I like this guy, but I’d like him even more if he was an Imperial, with that name. Also, between Ocato and Oscurio from The Ayleid Steps, the Elder Council is all Altmer, all day. An Altmer noble would be great. I don’t think this guy should be it.

Admiral Graysin Umbranox

Like this guy well enough (ties in well with the guy hitting on Milona, too, I bet), although I’m slightly iffy on the quest. I’ll go with the consensus, though.

Colin Pinder

Relative of Natch, no doubt. Also, cool, didn’t realize that’s what the statue was about.

This guy strikes me as the perfect guy for a “go retrieve the heirloom from the family tomb/stash” quest, if we can figure out a way to make it not conflict with Kvatch Rebuilt. Perhaps a ceremonial tomb in the bottom of the cliffs? Also perhaps we could run this sort of as a cross between Benirus Manor and the Amelion quest:

– Colin wants you to get $THING from the Pinder Tomb.
– $THING is guarded by the ghost of Antus Pinder, who informs the player that he’ll give it up, but only if Colin finds some courage to come get it himself.
– Player can jack Antus for $THING, and bring it back to Colin (or lie and keep it himself), which is probably the infamous ending. Colin sticks around Anvil here.
– Alternately, player needs to convince Colin (high disposition or personality/strength bullying dialogue) to go get the thing himself. Insert conversation where Antus tells Colin to stop being a whiny idiot and live up to his birthright. Colin thanks player, tells him he’ll think on this. Heads back to Anvil with $THING. Later, during Allies For Bruma, if you close the Anvil gate, Colin will grab some armor and show up to help fight at the Seige of Bruma.

Arim Relph

I like this all well enough, but believe there needs to be an option to simply jack the horse for yourself and lie about it.

Calida Benis

This sounds a lot more like an Imperial name than a Nord name to me. Too, we’ve got a lot of expat Nords from Skyrim in Bruma already, so suggestion here – change Calida to an Imperial from the south somewhere who’s in Bruma on some patently false business while she’s really and secretly waiting on Storig (do Nords ever have last names like that?) to show up. Of course she’s keeping it secret because of that whole roaming eye thing.

You are so totally writing the dialogue for this quest.

avatar Comment by Dwip #128
August 27, 2010 at 4:09 pm

Oh, also:

Thought about file paths:

Wouldn’t it be better to make it, for example:

meshes/AFK_Castles/Architechure/dwip?

Otherwise, when I start adding stuff we’ll get:

meshes/dwip/AFK_Castles/Architechure/Sigurd/

when I start adding stuff.

The number one reason we’re doing things this way is for my ease of organization. All my other mods are set up like this, see, so having this one off in the wilderness like that would confuse me.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #129
August 27, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Hanaisse, love those especially the Anvil treasure hunt!

Sorry Dwip, but the treasure in the barrel, especially with the implication Corvus recovered it years ago, is just too funny to pass up.

Re stairs: A 180, or 170 I suppose, landing should be sufficient to fit two doors. I’ll be back home tomorrow so I’ll post you some pics, but basically imagine a door at 0 deg and 90 deg, with the landing and stairs turned to 45 deg. That’s how you get two doors.

Re names:

Storig Masson (son of Mas), or Jarlsson (Son of the Jarl). There are Nords in Oblivion with with Imperial names, Redguards too, but a Nord should still have a patranomic (father’s name) or descriptive epiphet.

How about “Calida Coldheart” or some such?

avatar Comment by Dwip #130
August 27, 2010 at 4:34 pm

Well, if people want the treasure hunt, I’ll allow myself to be overruled. Not seeing it, but ok.

Yeah, I can envision the stairs thing pretty well.

Query: Would you rather have a single large crossbeam (like it is now, more or less), or a smaller latticework type thing like in the halls? Since I’m recreating everything right now (again, whee!), may as well ask now. I did the last set with latticework, but I don’t have to.

Storig Masson works for me. I think I like my idea for Calida (Calidia?) more than the alternatives, though. Few too many straight up Nords right now.

avatar Comment by Dwip #131
August 27, 2010 at 4:46 pm

Also, for the record, this is more or less where the stairs thing is going, although with new landings. Since the last set, the stairs are about twice as thick, and I retextured them.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #132
August 27, 2010 at 5:00 pm

Cheydinhal Quarters, ground floor at top, first floor below.

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/CheydinhalCastleQuarters.jpg

The entrace off the County Hall is circled, then you have:

1. Library/Common area

2. Farwil’s Room (useful for soppy love interest)

3. Guest Rooms, different sizes.

4. Servant’s quarters for local and roaming servants.

5 Extra stair to potential store room and secret passage (for Dark brotherhood shenanigans.

That’s a total of eight rooms for guests right now, plus Fawil’s room and servants quarters. One of the rooms could be a private dining room or something.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #133
August 27, 2010 at 5:05 pm

OK, I like those radial beams more than the right angle I suggested.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #134
August 27, 2010 at 6:05 pm

I’m going to save commenting on the comments until the other guys have had their say, except to say Storig Masson – I approve.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #135
August 27, 2010 at 9:32 pm

Chorrol version 2:

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/Chorrol3.jpg

1. Level 3 entrance from tower

2. Common area (Library?)

3. Room for inlaws

4. Rooms

5. Servants quarters.

Levels 1 and 2 each have a single room and an extra room for storage/servants. Level 2 has the entrance from the Great Hall.

avatar Comment by Dwip #136
August 27, 2010 at 11:05 pm

Filling all those rooms is going to be exciting. But cool.

As far as the stairs thing goes:

– Stairs and landings are all done. Also did up some pillars. Landings now come in 90 degree, 180 degree, and 225 degree varieties. There are wood and stone versions of each type, and the 180 and 225 versions have one and two door versions.

– Stairs should now seamlessly work with both themselves and the 180 degree landings.

– I still need to do up the following: Mid big door, Mid two door, Mid two big door, Top big door, top two door, top two big door, bottom two door, bottom big door, bottom two big door. There are also two possible big/small door combos for each of those if I feel like getting industrious. I may, since it’s about 30 seconds more work once I get that far.

– I also want to make a pair of balcony railings – one that looks like the stack balcony railings, and a wooden one. Probably this is all tomorrow’s job, because Blender and less than 6 hours of sleep go poorly together.

avatar Comment by Samson #137
August 28, 2010 at 3:37 am

Florius Canstavo: I’m with Dwip on this one. Too many Altmer would bring back shades of the Ayleid days and I doubt the folks of Cyrodiil would have stood for that. So if we’re cooking up Elder Council types, some need to be Imperials. Plus, Altmer don’t strike me as the mundane census taking types nor do they really strike me as gossipy. I might be wrong on that.

Admiral Graysin Umbranox: I like this. Especially the treasure hunt part. Oblivion doesn’t have enough treasure hunts. I like Sigurd’s addition that it be implied that Corvus recovered the artifact eons ago, perhaps even while he was still the Grey Fox.

Colin Pinder: What more to say other than, yes. Definitely a good character concept. Could be even more interesting if somehow Natch Pinder in Hackdirt could be tied in as some sort of long lost relative. Dwip’s ghost idea guarding the item is good too, as is Colin finally growing a pair and showing up in Bruma for the battle. Maybe even have him arrive at the chapel with the rest and offer his services there. Leaves open the question of what to do with him if the MQ is already past that point though.

Arim Relph: Isn’t the best of breed info already widely known and thus easily solved? I don’t dislike the idea, but it needs something more than a straight up talk to people thing.

Calida Benis: Needs a Nordic name, but otherwise the sappy love triangle thing sounds just like what Nords would do :P

RE: Tower stuff, keep up the cool work, looks like you Blender gurus have it handled :)

avatar Comment by Sigurd #138
August 28, 2010 at 8:31 am

What are the “big door” versions? I’m slightly confused.

Re Rooms: filling them is going to take me ages. As far as I am concerned Cheydinhal and Chorrol are basically done (sans possible secret room in Cheydinhal.)

Are we going to do a tomb for the Kvatch guy? If so I want to get on with planning it. I have something to show you with regard to religious architechure, something I was working up for release before I started on this, actually, I just haven’t found somewhere to put it!

avatar Comment by Sigurd #139
August 28, 2010 at 8:33 am

Oh, about the horses, none of them are necissarily “best”, while the Black is fast it isn’t as tough as the White which is clearly meant to be the “war” horse while the Black is the “Racer”.

What your man really needs is a cross bread to create a horse nearly as tough as the White and nearly as tough as the Black.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #140
August 28, 2010 at 1:28 pm

Still wondering where Conner is, but ok, to sum it up;

Florius Canstavo: change from Altmer to Imperial. Agreed, it’s a go.

Admiral Graysin Umbranox: Sorry Dwip, concensus is a treasure hunt. So it’s a go. I too love Sigurds addition of Corvus having recovered it years ago. Will have to work that in based on if he’s around or not (post Thieves Guild).

Colin Pinder: Great, love the family heirloom type quest. Let’s go with that. Sigurd, I’d love to see what you have in mind for a tomb, that would be great. As for Natch, well, even the UESP says it’s not known if he’s related to Antus so I’d much rather just leave him out of it. It’s a go.

Arim Relph: This idea needs more thought. Yeah, it might be easy enough for some people to go straight to Cheydinhal. I suppose we can continue to debate the idea of is there a real horse to get or just talk of a horse too. More discussion needed.

Calida Benis: Ok, this name sucks, I get it, lol. Dwip, I’m not following your suggestion, it confuses me, and breaks the entire love triangle drama. I suppose we could make her an Imperial, I have no issue with that. She’ll just need a new background. More discussion needed.

I second the kudos for the tower work, it’s looking awesome.

avatar Comment by Dwip #141
August 28, 2010 at 2:25 pm

Yeah, where IS Conner, anyway?

Sounds like we’re good on Florius, and apparently I’ve been outvoted on Graysin’s quest, so I guess we’re good there.

Re: Colin, yeah, sounds like we’re up for a tomb. Is it a sign that I’ve played too much Morrowind when I immediately pictured something in the Velothi style with far too many ancestor ghosts?

Thinking that if the Colin gets a pair quest finishes post-MQ, then Colin gets dialogue about how he regrets having missed his great chance to prove his worth and avenge Kvatch. Makes him a little more pathetic, but oh well.

As far as Natch goes, we could always toss in a line about “cousin Natch, who got involved with those crazies up in Hackdirt” if we feel like it. Maybe conditional on if the player has been to Hackdirt. Maybe not.

For Arim Relph, what if, and this is a pretty off the top of my head what if, Relph directed the player to, say, Cheydinhal or Anvil, who direct the player either to a horse breeder in some village somewhere (who knows where), who mentions selling the horse to the IC stables. Remember that herd of wild horses south of the IC that’s supposed to be the escaped Chestnut Handy herd? Maybe stick our horse in there. Bribe the horse with some apples or something, get it mounted, take it back or steal it. Dunno, but it’s a thought, anyway.

To elaborate a bit more on Calida Benis:

– Right now, we have two Skyrim nobles, both Nords, in Bruma. Calida would be #3, hubby makes #4. I like Nords as much as the next guy, but that’s a lot.

– There’s supposed to be, if I remember my Bruma dialogue correctly, some tension/flavor in Bruma between the rougher Skyrim Nords and the smoother, polished Imperial heartlanders. Right now, the only reflection of this is our traveling mines guy.

– Calida (I’d make it Calidia) Benis sounds pretty Imperial to me. Given the above, a marriage between a southern Imperial woman and a Nord would be sort of a good reflection of the larger Bruma lore.

– Since we’ve established that our girl has a bit of a wandering eye, it would make sense that she’s not being perfectly honest about her real reason for being in Bruma (waiting for Storig), and so would invent some kind of other reason – vacation, checking on her prized arctic anteater herd, whatever. More or less nothing else about the quest needs to change, just spinning her background in a slightly different direction.

– As a bonus, we could make her related to some other noble(s) somewhere else, who could show up to the inevitable wedding.

Alternately, my rustic Nord chief guy could get deleted and changed to an Imperial, and maybe that’s not a bad idea anyway, but I kind of like my idea.

That said, if we’re going to make her a Nord, we need a more Nordic name for her than Calida Benis. I don’t really have a good suggestion for it, though.

What are the “big door” versions? I’m slightly confused.

For “small door” sub in “narrow hall” and for “big door” sub in “wide hall”. I wrote that right on about the time that I got so tired my brain stopped working.

I’ll have more to say here in a bit, but first let me do some updating to the NPC list in the OP.

avatar Comment by Conner #142
August 28, 2010 at 2:49 pm

Where is Conner? Conner had a busy (hectic as opposed to pleasantly busy) day yesterday and came back to find the addition of 23 new posts (some quite lengthy) to try to catch up on… (yes, all those posts that made y’all miss me took place in a one day span…) ..not to mention all those new posts at Samson’s to catch up on too yet. :sigh:

Regarding the tower stuff, thirded, you’re doing a great job. :)

As for the slew of quest/character ideas from Hanaisse yesterday, I’ll consent to the current consensus with the obvious exceptions being the couple we seem to still need discussion on. So, for those:

– I’m with Dwip on his latest input regarding the horse being locatable with the wild horses south of IC.

– I’m okay with Dwip’s latest suggestions regarding Calida (Calidia?) but a little confused (maybe I’ve forgotten it?) about this ‘rustic Nord chief guy’??

In any event, Hanaisse’s suggestions all sounded good to me at first read and the subsequent refinement suggestions from everyone seem to have fleshed out the ideas nicely. :)

So, am I caught back up now?

avatar Comment by Dwip #143
August 28, 2010 at 2:58 pm

Ok. OP has been updated with some more notes. I think once we get everything finalized I’ll make a WIP thread #2, and we’ll consolidate the NPC stuff there. It’s getting chaotic in here.

Current NPC needs:

Anvil – 1 (Milona’s Breton admirer needs a name)

Bravil – 1 (the other three need names)

Bruma – 0 (but need to work out the rustic chief guy)

Cheydinhal – 2 (the other two need names)

Chorrol – 1 (the husband/wife need names)

Leyawiin – 2 (the ambassadors need fleshing out)

Floating – 1 (the mining guy needs a name/race/sex)

A few things:

– I think the AU dropout mage, to bring that guy back, should live in Bravil, and should be an Altmer or Bosmer. Probably Altmer.

– The remaining Anvil person should be a woman to balance all those guys. Somebody non-Imperial would be good. Alternately, a good spot for “Calida’s” parent if we go that route.

– Likewise, either the mining person should be a woman, or we need a floating woman. The other two are both Imperial males.

– I’m keeping the rustic Nord chief guy in Bruma penciled in, but he’s ripe for replacement, considering the Nordfest we have already. Somebody southern, but not a lot of ideas.

– I think, for Cheydinhal, that the “OMG Farwil swoon” girl and the Morrowind guy should be father/daughter, just ’cause.

– Also, we never really did come to a conclusion on the Dark Brotherhood tie-in guy. I’m pretty meh on the subject, personally, and don’t have any really good thoughts on making this guy interesting.

– In any event we need some non-Dunmer for Cheydinhal, and at least one Imperial. If we’re doing any orcs, this is probably the spot.

– Chorrol is another spot for “Calida’s” possible parent, if we do that. Also for a random elf.

– We haven’t really touched Leyawiin at all yet. I’ve got ambassadors penciled in, but we don’t have anything for them to do yet.

avatar Comment by Conner #144
August 28, 2010 at 3:33 pm

Oy, we do have more work than the remaining 8 NPCs left, don’t we?

Okay…

His living in Bravil and being Altmer is fine by me.

A non-imperial mother to “Calida” in Anvil is fine too.

:shrug: I had pictured the mining interests guy as a guy, but I’m flexible, a chick could work too, she’d just be a little less stereotypical that way. Frankly, I don’t see why one or two of our floaters couldn’t be female anyway, though we do already have what’s-her-name (the countess’s daughter) already too.

I’m going to have to go back a page or two and refresh my memory on what this rustic Nord chief guy in Bruma was about I guess. :(

Farwil swoon girl and Morrowind guy are father/daughter. I don’t see any benefit to it, but I don’t see any drawback to it particularly either. :shrug:

As for my DB tie-in guy, it was just a thought to give us another NPC who’s not so quest focused and who still gives some background flavor to one of our castles. If he doesn’t work, I won’t be offended.

Orcs go in Cheydinhal and at least one of our NPCs there needs to be Imperial and another needs to be something other than Nord or Dunmer. Noted. ;)

“Calida” has an elven father in Chorrol to counter her non-imperial mother in Anvil?

We still need to focus some court intrigue (local and ambassadorial) in Leyawiin. Guess I need to go check out Leyawiin again and see what the local flavor/dynamics of the area are again. Isn’t that more or less next door (well, across the river from) to the place all the Argonians live?

avatar Comment by Dwip #145
August 28, 2010 at 4:04 pm

:shrug: I had pictured the mining interests guy as a guy, but I’m flexible, a chick could work too, she’d just be a little less stereotypical that way.

I did too, actually, but works either way. Kind of want it to be Imperial or Breton, however.

I’m going to have to go back a page or two and refresh my memory on what this rustic Nord chief guy in Bruma was about I guess. :(

At the moment he’s not much more than a throwaway suggestion I made in one of the very first posts. His background isn’t much more than “I kind of want a guy who’s like Keldon Swiftrunner from Feldscar.” Which is to say that we either need to give him some better background or scrap him. At this point, scrapping him wouldn’t hurt me any.

Farwil swoon girl and Morrowind guy are father/daughter. I don’t see any benefit to it, but I don’t see any drawback to it particularly either. :shrug:

Not a huge thing, just me pondering on why there would be some random teenage girl at court in the first place. Obviously a lot of places you could go with that, but this one worked the best for me. I like family relationships.

A bit of DB/orc Cheydinhal ponderance. To be sure, there’s already an orc noble near Cheydinhal (Rudgrumph), but as best I can recall he’s played pretty much entirely for comic relief. Most of the orcs in Cheydinhal, meanwhile, are members of the Orum gang skooma ring. I’m not entirely sure how the lore behind this plays out, but what if we had a sort of Mafia don type orc noble, who’s more or less running cover for both the Orums and the Brotherhood? Ideally, he would have some sort of side quest, possibly involving assassination or theft available to +infamy characters. Alternately it would be possible to put him in jail. Not quite sure where to go with that, however. Perhaps tie this in with our unnamed fourth Cheydinhal noble, who would give you a quest to bring this guy down? Alternately, this might be something the army inspector roamer is involved in.

As far as Leyawiin goes, it’s in between both the Argonian and Khajiiti nations. As we’ve also discussed at length, there’s that existing business where Alessia Caro is a notorious racist (and secret Argonian torturer, as I recall), and most of her subjects are pretty unhappy about that. It’s going to be pretty tough to do anything lasting to Alessia herself, since she’s involved in a bunch of quests, but there’s room for sympathizers or allies or whatever. We also don’t need to go 100% race relations all the time, but that hook is definitely there if we want to exploit it.

avatar Comment by Conner #146
August 28, 2010 at 5:22 pm

At the moment he’s not much more than a throwaway suggestion I made in one of the very first posts. His background isn’t much more than “I kind of want a guy who’s like Keldon Swiftrunner from Feldscar.” Which is to say that we either need to give him some better background or scrap him. At this point, scrapping him wouldn’t hurt me any.

I say let’s leave him for now and tag him as needing background/replacement so we can see if anyone’s got a better idea either for him or for his slot. At least, for now, he’s filling one of our slots that wasn’t otherwise full yet.

Not a huge thing, just me pondering on why there would be some random teenage girl at court in the first place. Obviously a lot of places you could go with that, but this one worked the best for me. I like family relationships.

Family relationships are good, but there are plenty of reasons for a teenaged girl to be a courtier. She could be the noble’s ward or the daughter of some minor noble sent to live in the court for a variety of reasons, including just the hopes that she’ll eventually find a husband of rank or that her promiscuous ways will at least serve the family interests in court rather than resulting in a local villager having a bastard of questionable rank. It could even be that she’s some sort of child prodigy in whatever she does, be it espionage, magic, fighting, music, whatever.. ;)

A bit of DB/orc Cheydinhal ponderance. To be sure, there’s already an orc noble near Cheydinhal (Rudgrumph), but as best I can recall he’s played pretty much entirely for comic relief. Most of the orcs in Cheydinhal, meanwhile, are members of the Orum gang skooma ring. I’m not entirely sure how the lore behind this plays out, but what if we had a sort of Mafia don type orc noble, who’s more or less running cover for both the Orums and the Brotherhood? Ideally, he would have some sort of side quest, possibly involving assassination or theft available to +infamy characters. Alternately it would be possible to put him in jail. Not quite sure where to go with that, however. Perhaps tie this in with our unnamed fourth Cheydinhal noble, who would give you a quest to bring this guy down? Alternately, this might be something the army inspector roamer is involved in.

So.. are you suggesting that our DB tie-in guy be an orc who is also the real leader of the Orum who’s letting Rudgrumph be the fall guy while he conducts real business in the security of Cheydinhal’s castle behind the cover of just being one more pathetic courtier? Or are you suggesting that our fourth courtier in Cheydinhal be an Orc who’s the real Don of the Orum gang (plus most of the rest of the aforementioned) that has a rivalry going on with our DB tie-in guy and let that rivalry spill over to the player? Perhaps if the player is gaining ranks in the DB our guy would approach the player to off the Don while if the player isn’t purely good but also isn’t involved in the DB the Don might do the approaching and if the player is purely good then the roaming army inspector could approach them to investigate his suspicions between the other two of them?

As far as Leyawiin goes, it’s in between both the Argonian and Khajiiti nations. As we’ve also discussed at length, there’s that existing business where Alessia Caro is a notorious racist (and secret Argonian torturer, as I recall), and most of her subjects are pretty unhappy about that. It’s going to be pretty tough to do anything lasting to Alessia herself, since she’s involved in a bunch of quests, but there’s room for sympathizers or allies or whatever. We also don’t need to go 100% race relations all the time, but that hook is definitely there if we want to exploit it.

Agreed, we already discussed Alessia and she’s a bit over-booked already, but we could certainly play on her racism and the unpopularity of it through her courtiers. Especially with Leyawiin situated between the cats and the lizards, we could have the players start or prevent a war with either of those, or just help with propagandizing either racial hatreds or civil liberties.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #147
August 28, 2010 at 6:11 pm

Lots of great ideas, guys. Keep em coming.

I’m not feeling so hot (sore throat and cough) so I’m going to print all this up, grab a notebook and go crawl in bed with a cup of tea and see if I can flesh out some of the earlier ideas that have no substance yet. Also to make sure what’s been said so far makes sense. Also to detail and inventory servants, etc each noble will need. Also to stop rambling.

Nice idea about the Orum gang, which was kinda like my idea of the Morag Tong/Camonna Tong thing but probably makes more sense.

Expect a very very long posting either later tonight or tomorrow.

Dwip, I think it’s a good idea to separate out the NPC discussion from the castle building discussion.

avatar Comment by Dwip #148
August 28, 2010 at 6:29 pm

@Hanaisse –

Get better. :|

I’d like to get a complete NPC list before seperating the threads. Don’t think the castle stuff will bog us down too much yet.

@Conner –

Re: Cheydinhal girl, if we can make one of those work, well.

So.. are you suggesting that our DB tie-in guy be an orc who is also the real leader of the Orum who’s letting Rudgrumph be the fall guy while he conducts real business in the security of Cheydinhal’s castle behind the cover of just being one more pathetic courtier?

More or less this, only a little more overt and ominous and also hooked in with the DB. He’d be our third guy. The fourth guy I wanted to be a little bit more of a blatant good guy, just to provide somebody in Cheydinhal who wasn’t a corrupt bastard.

Or we could not do that.

avatar Comment by Conner #149
August 28, 2010 at 7:54 pm

Yes, Hanaisse, as Dwip said, get better. I’d even go so far as to suggest adding some nice honey to your nice warm tea, it will help soothe/coat your throat.

I agree that once the NPC list is complete we should probably separate the NPC part of this from the castle/tower design parts of this just for the sake of clarity. On the other hand, we’ve nearly finished fleshing out most of the NPCs already as we’ve been going, so by the time we’ve got every slot on our NPC list filled, we may be too late to bother with trying to separate the discussions at that point.

As for the Cheydinhal girl, I’m sure we can make one of those work, in fact, I suspect we can make any of them we want work. ;)

Okay, I can see it. So we make our DB tie-in guy also be the Don of the Orum gang who’s playing Rudgrumph for a chump while he revels in his security provided by the local government and uses the Orum gang for dirty work that falls short of outright murder and his position within the Brotherhood for his dirty work that doesn’t miss that mark. Meanwhile, we’ve got a fourth courtier who’s aware of what’s going on with the other three and too innocent himself to do something about it but who desperately wants help to clean up what he sees as the vile corruption that’s infiltrated the castle. If the player s more evil than good then our fourth guy shuns him/her as yet more corruption, while the third guy could involve the PC in DB business if the player’s in the DB and/or Orum business. If the player is more good than evil the fourth guy would approach the PC begging help outside the law, since the law is already obviously failed in this mess, with cleaning up the problems in-house.

avatar Comment by Dwip #150
August 28, 2010 at 8:04 pm

– At some point we’ll need to seperate just for the reference potential when somebody goes to build all of this. I don’t think now is that time, however.

– Yeah, more or less Re: Don Orcovani. Although I was thinking to more or less play it straight re: Orum gang – he’s not playing anybody in the gang, so much as he’s providing them some cover in court.

Lord Rugdumph isn’t in the Orum gang so much as he’s used for comic relief during a Fighter’s Guild quest. He’s sort of off in the wilderness, and I say we keep him that way.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #151
August 28, 2010 at 8:16 pm

I must admit, I am having a little trouble keeping up with the thread.

Hanaisse, please do get better – and Conner is correct, Honey is wonderful, as is nettle Tea if you can get it.

OK, I’ve spent the evening doing a massive Crypt for something else and trying to think about this Kvatch Tomb. It’s only 200 year old, so I was think that it would either be a modern Crypt like the Cathedral (boring) or an addition to an existing network of Catacombs below Kvatch (opertunity for massive dungeon crawl).

Thoughts? I like the second idea, and I can bash tile set together to give the impression of multiple eras/later revovations. I can even do some texture swaps to make them fit better.

On the Castles, Chorrol, Cheydinhal, and Bruma are all more or less done architechurally, complete with doors in place and only waiting on Dwip’s stairs. Once I have those and the NPC list I can begin cluttering, then I can pass them off to dwip for scripting etc.

So perhaps trying to flesh those NPC’s out first would be good, they seem the most complete overall anyway. Otherwise we run the risk of me being a bit too much of abottleneck.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #152
August 28, 2010 at 8:43 pm

LOL just got an online TV advert voiced by Sean Bean!

avatar Comment by Dwip #153
August 28, 2010 at 8:55 pm

To be slightly more refined about this than the stream of conciousness you almost got:

– I think a catacomb/tunnel thing would work well enough, although I’d use it as an addendum to the actual Pinder Ancestral Tomb than a way into it, and let me explain that.

– Catacombs as an addendum would let us do the “Colin, you must retrieve $THING!” part of the quest idea as a buddy dungeon crawl without having to drop dungeons all over creation. This as opposed to going through a long dungeon crawl just to get to Antus, which is annoying.

– We could play this a number of ways, but something on order of “Bandits! Bandits broke in and stole $THING from the Tomb!” makes some sense to me. Where bandits could also be marauders, goblins, or sentient telekinetic mountain lions.

– As a matter of monster population, I’d prefer to not populate the Pinder Ancestral Tomb with much of anything at all beyond the odd rat, perhaps, and not make it particularly large to boot – a few rooms at most. Again, this would be somewhat refreshing from the usual mode of such things. Too, I’m having the idea that instead of undead or bandits, you take a moderately generic bandit camp in a cave, and bend it so that some of the dremora from Kvatch killed all the bandits, and then never left. So you’d have a bunch of dremora (and maybe/maybe not Mythic Dawn dudes) roaming around a bunch of bandit corpses.

– As a matter of dungeon architecture, the fort ruin into cave thing has been done, but it’s doable. Also/alternately, how about using elements of this for the Pinder Ancestral Tomb part of things? For the cave/whatever part, liberal blending of Oblivion and Mythic Dawn trappings amidst the bandit stuff could be cool. Maybe have a room with the remains of an Oblivion gate and work from there.

As far as the stairs go, I’m working as best I can on the tower parts. Hopefully by the end of the weekend. After yesterday I’m a little under the weather, and it’s hard to concentrate.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #154
August 28, 2010 at 10:30 pm

Cruelly complicated catacombs with no passages that go any where:

http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae84/Philip_Wallinder/CatacombGalleries.png

Life is good – I could do something similar below Kvatch.

avatar Comment by Dwip #155
August 29, 2010 at 12:10 am

Towers are driving me insane. It’s not that any of this is particularly hard, so much as it’s boring me to tears. 2 of 6 done…

Like the style blending on the catacombs (ST crypt woo), though a little straight and monoleveled for my personal taste.

My style suggestions, I think, remain the same. Done the fort set catacombs thing. Let’s go beyond that.

avatar Comment by Samson #156
August 29, 2010 at 1:19 am

An orcish mafia don… I like it. Local criminal mastermind… definitely. No reason he can’t be fronting for both the Orum Gang and the Dark Brotherhood at the same time. Hell, there’s nothing in the city lore to suggest whether they hate each other or not, and the DB needs some sort of monetary source in order to maintain the necessary bribes. Orcs are also intimidating, so that works too.

avatar Comment by Samson #157
August 29, 2010 at 1:20 am

Hey Sigurd, you wouldn’t happen to have any other decent sized dungeons with large cavernous interiors that blend with Ayleid stuff lying about, would you? :P

avatar Comment by Conner #158
August 29, 2010 at 1:50 am

I’m with Samson on this one, Dwip. If you want to leave our Orc noble playing in the woods that’s fine, I still think our Orc courtier can be our DB tie-in and our Orc mafia boss can be one person and it works on several levels.

The tower and catacombs stuff all looks great so far. :)

I understand what you’re saying about getting the NPCs fleshed out for you, Sigurd, we’ll do what we can. It’s all I can offer, hopefully it’s enough.

avatar Comment by Dwip #159
August 29, 2010 at 2:03 am

Conner – you misunderstand me. I want to leave the vanilla NPC Lord Rugdumph out in the wilderness. Our orc courtier NPC with DB and Orum gang ties, not so much. We are in agreement on this.

As far as the timing thing goes, I think we’ve got a ways to go before we’re going to need fully-fleshed interiors. We’ve still got to get NPCs fleshed out, NPCs built, dialogue written, and quests planned. Most of that can be done without even touching the CS, so I think we’re good there.

Speaking of which, while I figure we’ll do at least basic quest plotting as a group, despite initial role suggestions I’m probably not going to be able to write every single dialogue line without this taking geological ages of the earth to get done – lot of NPCs here. I think I’ll have to do the final quest construction and dialogue input myself – that’s best done by one person, but writing is gonna kill us otherwise.

avatar Comment by Conner #160
August 29, 2010 at 2:43 am

Done deal then, Dwip. One more NPC settled. :)
Two if we count the fourth courtier there as being a good guy just trying to cleanse the corruption of the castle. ;)

Yes, there’s still quite a ways to go yet before the interiors become a real concern, and yes, we’ll likely all have to pitch in on coming up with the dialog and the rest of the details of the NPC design, including all the various quests and such too. If it wasn’t already understood by all, it’s time to face that detail, but most of it we can continue to take a step or two at a time until it’s done yet.

avatar Comment by Dwip #161
August 29, 2010 at 3:14 am

New spiral stair and tower meshes are here for your downloading pleasure.

A couple notes:

– Toss directly into Oblivion/Data. The directory structure is correct.

– A lot of the meshes probably look fairly whack in spots. Pretty sure the landing stuff needs some fine-tuning. I’ll get there.

– A few of the meshes still have bits of ceiling sticking out, which I know about and will get to. They might also have misaligned pillars and the like, which I don’t know about and want to know about.

– bottom versions of pillar and stairs should be used with bottom versions of towers. After that, use the regular or upper versions. Stairs are connectable with themselves or with 180 degree landings. 90 and 225 degree landings should be used as topmost landings or not at all.

Do not eat. Keep away from children. May explode in contact with flame. Beware of dog. Do not model and drive. By prescription only. Do not feed the squirrels.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #162
August 29, 2010 at 7:55 am

Hey Sigurd, you wouldn’t happen to have any other decent sized dungeons with large cavernous interiors that blend with Ayleid stuff lying about, would you? :P

That’s really more of a catacomb, litterally a place with loads of coffins, I felt it was lacking in Oblivion.

Was there something specific you were looking for?

avatar Comment by Sigurd #163
August 29, 2010 at 8:51 am

loving the new stairs, any chance of a left-turn?

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #164
August 29, 2010 at 1:15 pm

Thanks guys. I don’t know what nettle tea is but I had green tea and I’m loading up on vitamin water and Advil. Seems to be working. And I knew you guys would write 3 more pages of ideas :P

LOL just got an online TV advert voiced by Sean Bean!

I totally fell in love with Martin because of Sean’s voice. I really hope he’s in for TESV with a bigger part. (And I keep forgetting there’s no other females here to agree with me)

Liking the idea of a few lost dremora in the Pinder quest. Also like the idea that the tomb itself should be small and easy to get to, then send the player on to more adventure for said $THING.

A note about the necropolis tile set. I’ve been playing with it recently, and, how can I put this, I find it incomplete for a tile set. Most of the meshes are tunnels, with a handful of meshes to create one ginormous catacomb room (walls, floor, ceiling all separate and fussy to work with). The tunnels maybe we can use, but I wouldn’t use the room pieces.

As promised, here’s my wall of text:

First, some misc. notes.
– I think we should move the AU mage dropout dude to be a floater, so no one will catch on to his lies. Having him stay in just Bravil makes Bravil people look dumb. I’d go with Altmer (Bosmer males are boring)
– Calida – new name Calidia Denius, an impossible flirt. She can be in Bruma waiting for Storig but not pleased with this imposed marriage until she meets him, cause, Nords are hot.
– If we’re going to do her parents, we can easily slip them in to Leyawiin and round out all the NPC’s there. It will balance out the racial thing, I think. They can have chatty dialogue about their daughter, maybe pass messages from them to her and/or vice versa. They can return after the wedding as just court ambiance. I don’t have names for them yet.

New stuff:

– Pashya – Altmer female – Floater. Wealthy family-owned dynasty of mines throughout Cyrodiil. Will randomly send player to clean out a mine somewhere. Will also ask to be escorted every week to a new city (or whenever the player talks to them again provided a week has passed). 1 female servant as well. Continuous quest, just to keep her interesting. Possibly even have her train in some school of magic.

– Petrius and Elenora Valga, the cousins in Chorrol. Imperials. Petrius is the blood relative of Charus the former Count. The cousins come to visit near the anniversary of Charus’ death. Plans are in the making for a memorial ceremony. Petrius has always been envious of his cousin and walks around like he owns the place as if it should have all been his. Elenora is very aware of Arriana’s bitterness toward their presence and wants to make peace. She enlists the players aid to find a long lost artifact belonging to the Count. A sword would make sense since he died in battle. Go to a remote northern location (possibly in Skyrim or close because that’s where he died) to retrieve it. Also with it is a letter he wrote to his wife reminding her of their love which breaks down Arriana’s bitterness and everyone’s happy. Follow-up with a display case for the sword (make it worthless so the player doesn’t want to keep it, giving it to the Countess when the player gives her the letter) and a dedication plaque to Charus (seriously, why isn’t there one already?). Petrius is humbled by his cousins bravery in battle if you talk to him afterward.

And, enough of the sappy sappy, we need a little more ROAR then meow. Plus, I was watching The Mummy Returns and Rachel Weisz rocks. So, yeah, we need a kick-ass girl.

– Demetria – Bosmer female – Anvil. Young, sent to refine herself at court from (I dunno) she’ll play the coy maiden during the day in the castle or wandering around the better part of town. At night she tosses aside that boring facade, changes clothes (huntsman outfit?), drops by the FG to spar then hangs out with the ruffians on the dock. I’m wondering if there’s a way to get her in on the fist fights? Millona, of course, is not pleased with the restless girl (more envious though), has the player follow her and the player learns of a plot to kidnap Demetria.

I have a lot more detail of this, but I’ll save space and wait to see what you guys think of the plot so far. When the quest is over Demetria will spar with you whenever you want (ala Orlando).

One last thought on our Bruma chieftan because I like the sounds of him.
– Karn Silveraxe – Nord male – Bruma. Older, rustic chieftan on a diplomatic pilgrimage at Bruma court. Talks of old battles as if they were greater than the daedric crisis. Works both pre and post-MQ I think. I have no quest for him, but even if he doesn’t have one I think he’ll be great for atmosphere.

That’s all I’ve got so far.

avatar Comment by Conner #165
August 29, 2010 at 2:08 pm

Do not eat. Keep away from children. May explode in contact with flame. Beware of dog. Do not model and drive. By prescription only. Do not feed the squirrels.

Damn, I can’t take this for our picnic with the kids and share the leftovers with the squirrels?

any chance of a left-turn?

Only if you’re passing through Albuquerque.

I don’t know what nettle tea is

Take a look here. Basically it’s tea made from nettles.

And I knew you guys would write 3 more pages of ideas :P

Nah, just one and more trying to flesh out the ideas we already had than new ones. :shrug:

I keep forgetting there’s no other females here to agree with me

Shouldn’t Regina be around here somewhere?

I think we should move the AU mage dropout dude to be a floater, so no one will catch on to his lies. Having him stay in just Bravil makes Bravil people look dumb. I’d go with Altmer (Bosmer males are boring)

I’m okay with that, but we’ve got our full count of roamers already, don’t we? And that would leave us another unused slot with Bravil too. :shrug:
I don’t know about making the folks of Bravil look dumb, it just would mean making this one guy fairly good at deception, perhaps even at politician levels…
Sure, if you like Altmer better, it matter not at all to me. For the most part, to me, only the elves, cats, and lizards really stand out anyway. :shrug:

Calida – new name Calidia Denius, an impossible flirt. She can be in Bruma waiting for Storig but not pleased with this imposed marriage until she meets him, cause, Nords are hot.

Fine, Calidia instead. Um, okay, that would work.

If we’re going to do her parents, we can easily slip them in to Leyawiin and round out all the NPC’s there. It will balance out the racial thing, I think. They can have chatty dialogue about their daughter, maybe pass messages from them to her and/or vice versa. They can return after the wedding as just court ambiance. I don’t have names for them yet.

Oh, I thought Dwip was saying to put Mom in one court and Dad in the other… Either way, yes, they could exchange messages with her (and each other if they’re not in the same castle) and have witty dialogue about their daughter. I don’t see any reason they can’t return after the wedding either to their respective courts or to one of the two.

Pashya – Altmer female – Floater. Wealthy family-owned dynasty of mines throughout Cyrodiil. Will randomly send player to clean out a mine somewhere. Will also ask to be escorted every week to a new city (or whenever the player talks to them again provided a week has passed). 1 female servant as well. Continuous quest, just to keep her interesting. Possibly even have her train in some school of magic.

Again, I think we’d already filled our quota for roamers, but.. or is this our floating courtier with the mining interests? Wealthy mining courtier constantly traveling between castles adjacent to her mines.. perhaps she’s studied transmutation which has helped her be successful in mining? Just a first thought, I’d have to check the list of spells available to each school to decide for sure.

Petrius and Elenora Valga, the cousins in Chorrol.

Works for me.

Demetria – Bosmer female – Anvil. Young, sent to refine herself at court from (I dunno) she’ll play the coy maiden during the day in the castle or wandering around the better part of town. At night she tosses aside that boring facade, changes clothes (huntsman outfit?), drops by the FG to spar then hangs out with the ruffians on the dock. I’m wondering if there’s a way to get her in on the fist fights? Millona, of course, is not pleased with the restless girl (more envious though), has the player follow her and the player learns of a plot to kidnap Demetria.

Sounds a bit like she could take care of herself already, though that, by itself, would be enough reason for her parents to want to send her to live at court for refinement (unless they’re Nord, which you’ve already said she wouldn’t be).

Karn Silveraxe – Nord male – Bruma. Older, rustic chieftan on a diplomatic pilgrimage at Bruma court. Talks of old battles as if they were greater than the daedric crisis. Works both pre and post-MQ I think. I have no quest for him, but even if he doesn’t have one I think he’ll be great for atmosphere.

While I’ll be the first to admit I’m more inclined to interact with NPCs who are in some way part of a quest or who are shop keepers, sometimes it’s nice to have one or two here and there who have no quests but simply offer conversation and help to complete the local picture too.

avatar Comment by Dwip #166
August 29, 2010 at 3:12 pm

loving the new stairs, any chance of a left-turn?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

There is, but let me finalize the look of the right-hand set first, because it’s going to require a new set of stairs and landings. Once I do that, I can just mirror everything and ride off into the sunset, but.

If you absolutely need something right this direct instant it’s fairly trivial to add everything in, but I kind of need a break from stairs for a bit.

Only if you’re passing through Albuquerque.

Snerk.

Thanks guys. I don’t know what nettle tea is but I had green tea and I’m loading up on vitamin water and Advil. Seems to be working. And I knew you guys would write 3 more pages of ideas :P

Yay. And it’s what we do. ;)

I totally fell in love with Martin because of Sean’s voice. I really hope he’s in for TESV with a bigger part. (And I keep forgetting there’s no other females here to agree with me)

This. While I have many complaints about Oblivion’s main quest, Sean Bean’s Martin is not one of them at all.

Also, re: Conner, Sarah doesn’t read the Oblivion threads. Hanaisse is out of luck. Also, as I recall, of the people who are also LOTR cast members, she’s more of an Aragorn girl anyway.

A note about the necropolis tile set. I’ve been playing with it recently, and, how can I put this, I find it incomplete for a tile set.

Fair enough. I’ve never used it, so I’ll defer to experience. As long as it’s not the ST Crypt set, I’m more or less fine with it. Although I wish we had a non-fort ruin set to use. Oh well. Whatever.

I think we should move the AU mage dropout dude to be a floater, so no one will catch on to his lies. Having him stay in just Bravil makes Bravil people look dumb. I’d go with Altmer (Bosmer males are boring)

I don’t disagree, but don’t really mind leaving him in Bravil, either. Too, Bravil gets dissed on a lot for being a hick town full of dumb people, so, uh. I dunno. Makes a bit of sense he’d go be a charlatan there. I guess see if we come up with a better Bravil idea before we come up with a better floater idea?

Calida – new name Calidia Denius, an impossible flirt. She can be in Bruma waiting for Storig but not pleased with this imposed marriage until she meets him, cause, Nords are hot.

Works for me. Yay. Also see below.

If we’re going to do her parents, we can easily slip them in to Leyawiin and round out all the NPC’s there. It will balance out the racial thing, I think. They can have chatty dialogue about their daughter, maybe pass messages from them to her and/or vice versa. They can return after the wedding as just court ambiance. I don’t have names for them yet.

Could also make them sort of genial racists if we go the Leyawiin route. Alternately, if we make the AU guy a floater, both of them would fit in Bravil and we could do the whole impoverished family making a better match for their daughter thing. Whereas if we do the Leyawiin thing we could make it more of a getting the daughter a racially appropriate marriage thing. Take your pick. Alternately, Conner’s seperate courts idea works too. I’m game for any one of these.

Rutilius and Petronia.

Pashya – Altmer female – Floater. Wealthy family-owned dynasty of mines throughout Cyrodiil. Will randomly send player to clean out a mine somewhere. Will also ask to be escorted every week to a new city (or whenever the player talks to them again provided a week has passed). 1 female servant as well. Continuous quest, just to keep her interesting. Possibly even have her train in some school of magic.

I like all of this, except the name and my stated desire to make her Imperial. Quest == good idea. Trainer is cool, although why magic and not, say, mercantile or speechcraft?

Petrius and Elenora Valga, the cousins in Chorrol. Imperials. Petrius is the blood relative of Charus the former Count.

This totally works.

Demetria – Bosmer female – Anvil.

emphatic +1, although she’d probably need to watch the FG sparring unless we create an entirely new person for her to play with. What fist fights?

Karn Silveraxe – Nord male – Bruma.

This could also work. Random idea – involve him in the Charus rescue thing? Maybe he knows the story or knows where Charus fell or something? Pure atmosphere also works, since we have a fairly full slate of quests already.

avatar Comment by Conner #167
August 29, 2010 at 3:57 pm

Also, re: Conner, Sarah doesn’t read the Oblivion threads. Hanaisse is out of luck. Also, as I recall, of the people who are also LOTR cast members, she’s more of an Aragorn girl anyway.

Ah, well, twas a thought. Sorry, Hanaisse, it appears that you’re on your own here in this sea of guys. ;)

Trainer is cool, although why magic and not, say, mercantile or speechcraft?

I’d sort of wondered that too. If she was going to be trained in something, I’d think magic only if it could be a boon to the mining business otherwise mercantile would be the most obvious next plausibility.

Involve him in the Charus rescue thing? Maybe he knows the story or knows where Charus fell or something?

That works, but I also think it’s okay to have a few who are just background fillers too. I suppose could be both if he’s got no quests of his own but happens to have information, should someone ask, that makes one of the other quests (the Charus quest in this case) easier.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #168
August 29, 2010 at 6:40 pm

AU mage dude
No, we didn’t have all our floaters yet. I don’t see why we should play right into the dumb lower class Bravilians either, but hey. This guys story needs to be fleshed out first. It might make him more interesting to be deceiving more than one city. Again, depends how we want to play him. So, he’s still up in the air.

Calidia
Done, she’s a go. Which basically makes Storig a go too.

Calidia’s parents
I don’t see why her parents would be in different courts, so I’m a nay on that.

Could also make them sort of genial racists if we go the Leyawiin route.

No, there’s enough of that around already.

Alternately, if we make the AU guy a floater, both of them would fit in Bravil and we could do the whole impoverished family making a better match for their daughter thing.

Love this, and settles AU dude above. Rutilius and Petronia Denius. (Although Petronia, I don’t know, too close to Petrius).
If we all agree all three can be a go.

Pashya the floating miner

except the name and my stated desire to make her Imperial.

Open to names, and given a choice I’d say no on the Imperial. We have 7 already, gotta get some variety in.

although why magic and not, say, mercantile or speechcraft?

It stems from my making her an Altmer. Those high elves are very high class, which fits in with her wealthy background, and magic because, well, that’s what Altmers do best. Mercantile is such an easy skill to raise so I’d rather not. Maybe speechcraft….someone convice me. :)

Petrius and Elenora Valga
Done, they’re a go.

Demetria

Sounds a bit like she could take care of herself already

Yes, and she helps you rescue her. I did say there was more detail :) Glad you like her. The sparring thing in the FG, I don’t know how that works but I thought it might be as simple as adding an AI to one of them (maybe one that doesn’t spar now) for her. And, the fist fights – “At 1am, Thurindil will fight with Hauls-Ropes-Faster for three hours.” – this, out on the dock in front of the warehouse. It’s probably the same problem with the FG sparring though. But we need something to show that she is a good fighter, or at least give the impression she’s tough. Maybe through dialogue with people in The Floating Bowl?

Karn Silveraxe

Involve him in the Charus rescue thing? Maybe he knows the story or knows where Charus fell or something?

Sounds perfect to me to have him do both.
Done, he’s a go.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #169
August 29, 2010 at 9:35 pm

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

There is, but let me finalize the look of the right-hand set first, because it’s going to require a new set of stairs and landings. Once I do that, I can just mirror everything and ride off into the sunset, but.

Dwip, don’t worry about it. I’ve done some playing and I can work with what you gave me, so no worries.

On Characters

– Demetria – Bosmer female – Anvil. Young, sent to refine herself at court from (I dunno) she’ll play the coy maiden during the day in the castle or wandering around the better part of town. At night she tosses aside that boring facade, changes clothes (huntsman outfit?), drops by the FG to spar then hangs out with the ruffians on the dock. I’m wondering if there’s a way to get her in on the fist fights? Millona, of course, is not pleased with the restless girl (more envious though), has the player follow her and the player learns of a plot to kidnap Demetria.

I have a lot more detail of this, but I’ll save space and wait to see what you guys think of the plot so far. When the quest is over Demetria will spar with you whenever you want (ala Orlando).

I like the sound of this a lot, possibly have an option at the end for her to seek slightly more “respectable” adventures (the temptation here is to get her to follow the player around and then take her to Cloud Ruler Temple, but that’s a whole seperate mod there).

On the Chorrol quest: we absolutely can’t do that, it’s a complete rehash of the Vanilla Chorrol quest, perhaps make it his helm or shield.

Dwip, Hanaisse, could you do something with the Vanilla steel shield, or the “Heater” shaped one from Kvatch? Something that’s steel but looks somewhat finer?

On the Altmer Mage:

Does Bravil have a Court Mage? If not we could get our guy to trick the Count, that would protect him and allow for a Quest where the player finds out and either outs him or blackmails him for something.

On the tileset:

Mr Siika’s stuff is not the most “snap” friendly of work, let me have a look. If not I may contact him and ask if he minds us using the textures on some Vanilla meshes, I think he’s usually quite accomodating.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #170
August 29, 2010 at 10:38 pm

Can’t really get on with that Necropalis tileset, the meshes are centred oddly.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #171
August 30, 2010 at 12:28 am

On the Chorrol quest: we absolutely can’t do that, it’s a complete rehash of the Vanilla Chorrol quest, perhaps make it his helm or shield.

Er, which Chorrol quest do you mean?

Dwip, Hanaisse, could you do something with the Vanilla steel shield, or the “Heater” shaped one from Kvatch? Something that’s steel but looks somewhat finer?

Sure, I can give it a shot.

If you can ask mr_siika about using his textures it might work well on the AR set or even the fort ruins.

avatar Comment by Dwip #172
August 30, 2010 at 12:48 am

Re: Necropolis set, well, no worries. We’ll figure something else out.

Re: Stairs, thank God. A little too much Blender for me lately.

AU mage dude
No, we didn’t have all our floaters yet. I don’t see why we should play right into the dumb lower class Bravilians either, but hey. This guys story needs to be fleshed out first. It might make him more interesting to be deceiving more than one city. Again, depends how we want to play him. So, he’s still up in the air.

This is all more or less true. Let’s give him a bit more thought, although we’re running out of spots to put him at this point.

Sigurd – yes, Bravil has a court mage. Fathis Aren, who’s even a pretty good court mage, come to think of it. All the courts do, really.

Love this, and settles AU dude above. Rutilius and Petronia Denius. (Although Petronia, I don’t know, too close to Petrius).
If we all agree all three can be a go.

Caecillia? Licinia? Plotia? Any of those sound appealing to anybody?

Re: Miner person, lot of Altmers all of a sudden (this is what, 3?). What about a Bosmer male just for kicks? The “I know magic to help me mine stuff” explanation works for me as far as I’m concerned, and in any case I suck at the speechcraft minigame and can’t convince you. But how about these 75 gold coins?

Re: Demetria, we can have her watch the fight easily enough. Getting her to participate is going to require more NPCs.

Re: Chorrol quest, Sigurd’s right, there can be only one Eustacheon or Honorblade of Chorrol.

And I’m losing coherency, so I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

avatar Comment by Conner #173
August 30, 2010 at 1:51 am

Maybe speechcraft….someone convice me. :)

While I’m not too bad at the speechcraft mini game in game, I’m not really willing to argue for speechcraft, I could see it just because it’s unusual and does have business potential, but it’s far from the first skill I’d have her trained in myself. :shrug:

yes, Bravil has a court mage. Fathis Aren, who’s even a pretty good court mage, come to think of it. All the courts do, really.

Is that going to make our AU mage guy a problem?

Caecillia? Licinia? Plotia? Any of those sound appealing to anybody?

I never really like names with the ae pairing in them personally.. Plotia sounds a bit odd, but might work.. Licinia reminds me of licentious which has some appropriateness to it.. :shrug:

Re: Miner person, lot of Altmers all of a sudden (this is what, 3?). What about a Bosmer male just for kicks?

She said she thought Bosmers were boring.. but, if it’s just one out of our 32 NPCs? Sure wouldn’t make a difference to me.

Re: Demetria, we can have her watch the fight easily enough. Getting her to participate is going to require more NPCs.

As in we’d need to alter more NPCs or create more NPCs? If you don’t mind explaining to the layman here, why?

On the Chorrol quest: we absolutely can’t do that, it’s a complete rehash of the Vanilla Chorrol quest, perhaps make it his helm or shield.

Er, which Chorrol quest do you mean?

Pretty sure he means this one:

Petrius and Elenora Valga, the cousins in Chorrol. Imperials. Petrius is the blood relative of Charus the former Count. The cousins come to visit near the anniversary of Charus’ death. Plans are in the making for a memorial ceremony. Petrius has always been envious of his cousin and walks around like he owns the place as if it should have all been his. Elenora is very aware of Arriana’s bitterness toward their presence and wants to make peace. She enlists the players aid to find a long lost artifact belonging to the Count. A sword would make sense since he died in battle. Go to a remote northern location (possibly in Skyrim or close because that’s where he died) to retrieve it. Also with it is a letter he wrote to his wife reminding her of their love which breaks down Arriana’s bitterness and everyone’s happy. Follow-up with a display case for the sword (make it worthless so the player doesn’t want to keep it, giving it to the Countess when the player gives her the letter) and a dedication plaque to Charus (seriously, why isn’t there one already?). Petrius is humbled by his cousins bravery in battle if you talk to him afterward.

So, Sigurd suggests we go with his helm or shield instead of his sword because, as Dwip puts it:

Re: Chorrol quest, Sigurd’s right, there can be only one Eustacheon or Honorblade of Chorrol.

Ok, his helm or shield ought to work just fine. But if this is mimicking the vanilla quest from the same city that closely, perhaps we need to consider a few changes to it beyond just helm/shield instead of sword. Maybe it’s already been claimed from the battlefield where he fell by some local who the player now needs to buy or steal it back from?

And I’m losing coherency, so I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

G’nite, I think I’m going to go the same route once I finish wading through the posts on Samson’s in an attempt to catch up…

avatar Comment by Mael #174
August 30, 2010 at 4:42 am

And, on a more serious note, merchants are rarely (at best) among the regular courtiers of any castle…

wut? Are you for serious? Merchants have always courted the nobility. They want the same thing minor nobles want — more power and more money. Heck, in many cases, successful merchants have more power and money than minor nobles.

I was trying to come up with a fairly unique NPC, considering all the variety that you lot have already spawned. And I’m thinking of someone like Salmoneus from Hercules now. Except maybe a bit more intelligent. Travels between the castles to court any and all nobility there to buy or invest in his crazy ideas. Probably an imperial.

Maybe tie him into Molapi somehow if the player has Molapi installed. I can’t think of a good thing right off, but obviously it could tie into the tobacco, nightshade and mandrake root farms.

As for quests, he could have the player going off on wild goose chases for his hair-brained trade schemes. Perhaps another way to use nirnroot at some point? “Nirnroot! Yes, it’s poisonous if you simply smoke it, but if you mix it with fire salts, it…” does something fun. Perhaps give it an effect comparable to skooma or moon sugar. Quests of this ilk.

As the player’s level goes up, so would the difficulty of the quests (most of which could probably be done incidentally while doing the MQ). “Powdered minotaur horn! All the noble ladies are using it with milkthistle as a beauty cream! WE’LL MAKE HUNDREDS OF SEPTIMS! How does 90/10 sound?”

And if your mercantile is high enough, maybe he gives you more of the profits.

Have him stock simple goods, but give him something stupidly low like 100 for a buy limit because he’s always broke due to his schemes. And every once in a while he could have something ridiculous, like 100 shock arrows for a mere 100 septims because he doesn’t know they’re awesome, etc etc.

At the end of it all, if your mercantile is high enough, you could invest in him and have his buy limit go up to 2000 or something and stock better/rarer goods like rare alchemical stuff and minor magic things with the off-chance of having some stupidly powerful thing to keep players coming back to check on him.

As seen here, in Drac wannabe’s new…

I dig the white on black moreso than the red on black, and being the spawner for the vampire wannabe, I exercise my right of USE THAT ONE. :D

avatar Comment by Mael #175
August 30, 2010 at 6:00 am

Okay, I mostly caught up on everything. I realize you guys have largely settled the errant mage idea, but let me suggest something off-kilter.

What if it’s an argonian, based in Leyawiin? This could fit perfectly with the yet-to-be-determined argonian ambassador. The guy never went to UA at all, just knows some hodgepodge trickery (skilled in illusion for the charm spells?) and is in cahoots with the ambassador.

In my thinking, if he never went to UA or even if he’s just a dropout, he’d want to be as far away from the IC as possible, which means Anvil or Leyawiin. And I think it fits better with the racial stress in Leyawiin, personally.

avatar Comment by Mael #176
August 30, 2010 at 6:17 am

And last, but not least, I once again suggest moving this entire thing to Google Wave. Dwip was mistaken in his belief that they’ve discontinued it. They’ve simply stopped development. And at this point you can invite anyone rather than just folks with a gmail account (which almost everyone has anyway).

Why do I push for this you ask? Dwip and I used it for a baseboard for a D&D world we were working on and to me, it worked much better than a single thread. For instance, I made a Wave thread for each of six major aspects of the world. People, geography, powers (gods), mechanics, items and races and classes.

Each wave contains the base ideas for that aspect, and can be expanded upon individually in their own waves rather than having to scroll through a single thread, screening them and trying to reply to multiple posts using the quote command.

Also, Wave uses Google Docs to host files, which means that Sigurd and Dwip can trade their work on a local plane rather than having to send stuff back and forth, and any one of us in the wave can check it out as well. A central repository for NPC .esps would be great too, don’t you think?

In the case of AFK_Castles, I’d suggest at least two wave threads. AFK_Castles — NPCs and AFK_Castles — Construction, for the NPC brainstorming and the chatting about Sigurd’s rooms and Dwip’s stairs respectively. There could easily be a third for quests and a fourth for ideas and expansions in the future.

Here is a screenshot of a small wave discussion between Dwip and I about background powers for our 4e world. You can see how the comments work at least a little bit and how subjects are much easier to track since you can comment on specific points (at any place in the original thread, though that isn’t shown here).

Another thought I just had is using Google Docs for the NPC dialog and scripts that can be done there. This would give everyone in the group access to read them, point out errors or suggest alternate ways of expressing something. I would happily volunteer to QC the dialog — as Dwip can tell you, I catch pretty much all errors in NPC dialog in the game.

If you aren’t familiar with just how Wave works, I recommend going there and watching their videos. You will instantly understand how great it is for multi-person and multifaceted project coordination!

avatar Comment by Conner #177
August 30, 2010 at 1:19 pm

Yes, Mael, merchants frequently courted nobles and very often became wealthy enough to buy titles and often became as powerful as any of the nobility but they rarely were courtiers living in the castle. Now, what you describe this time does sound like a fun idea for a courtier. You’re talking about someone wandering from castle to castle pandering his crazy get-rich-quick schemes now, not someone pandering typical storefront merchandise exclusively to the courts, who happens to also be willing to trade regular merchandise with the PC in exchange for the PC doing quests towards future business prospecting.

I thought Dwip was saying he didn’t want to push too hard on the racial stuff down there? (But I definitely agree that our errant mage guy’s going to want to get as far as he can from the IC whether he’s really just a dropout or outright faking that he ever went.

I’m not sure why you’re pushing wave. They did announce that it was officially discontinuing. Development has already stopped and full support is supposed to be stopping soon and then shortly after that the sites are being sold or some such. Beyond that, I suppose we could just as easily take all this to a yahoo group or set up an exclusive copy of sandbox for it, or I could host it on one of my QSFP sites, or.. we could just leave it here. ;)

avatar Comment by Mael #178
August 30, 2010 at 1:31 pm

Huh. From what I read in the article I read, they said it would still be up for at least a year yet.

I guess what I’m really pushing is a good collaboration format with a clearer way to present and understand information. This blog mess is not That Way.

Even setting up a mini-forum with something (Sandbox?) and having a thread for each separate topic would be better. It’s pretty easy to set up PHPBBx at least. I’m not sure what Sandbox really is (blog? forum? both?).

And yeah, I didn’t actually present any information on the goblin merchant or think too hard about it. But then I did think about it and remembered Salmoneus and it just seemed like a great NPC to have fun with. :)

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #179
August 30, 2010 at 2:11 pm

Yes, merchant scammer guy does sound pretty interesting.
Yes, I agree this would be much easier in a forum format.
Yes, you can have your white on black drac shirt :P

avatar Comment by Conner #180
August 30, 2010 at 2:22 pm

I think they’re leaving the servers up for the year, but shutting them down completely at that point if they can’t find a buyer to take over sooner but support’s supposed to go away within a couple of months. I didn’t pay as close attention to the details of the announcement as I could’ve because I don’t use wave anyway. :shrug:

I can’t argue against that. A good collaboration medium would be better than what we’ve got. But would it really be worth it for one of us to host/set-up anything dedicated to just one little project? ..ok, that sounds really silly rereading it. Yes, it probably would be a worthwhile effort in the long run. The biggest problems are: It’s and AFK_ project so Dwip should host it. Once it’s set up, we’ll all need to create accounts so we’ve got our own logons and, ideally, we need to create those accounts before Dwip tries to transition all the posts from this thread to appropriate places in the new medium so everything can still get attributed correctly. (I don’t know of anything out there to convert WordPress to anything else, let alone QSFP or PHPBB or what not. (Sandbox is really just a blog like WordPress, it’s just a little more advanced in most areas whereas WP has plugins and SB doesn’t yet. QSFP is a forums with file archives, etc. so probably more appropriate than a blog package.)

Well, I’m not sure I recall off-hand who Salmoneus is, but as I said, I can see a courtier who acts as a merchant for the PC and I can see a courtier who’s traveling between castle’s trying to persuade nobles to back his schemes (along with any other investors who express interest and have access to the courts) but not an outright open merchant as a courtier. I could even see a merchant who has a shop somewhere that’s grown so wealthy and powerful as to now have shop managers to tend his business while he enjoys the life of a courtier due to his purchased titles, just not someone establishing a local castle gift shop within the court itself. ;)

avatar Comment by Mael #181
August 30, 2010 at 2:28 pm

Yes, you can have your white on black drac shirt :P

Wai! Wai!

…just not someone establishing a local castle gift shop within the court itself. ;)

Never was my intention. But since I didn’t actually say that, I’ll still tell you you should learn to read minds! :D

avatar Comment by Conner #182
August 30, 2010 at 2:45 pm

Sorry, Mael, I do my best at mind reading, but it’s really hard when I don’t actually know the person in question (you) in real life, or even where that person lives.. now, if we were friends for years offline and knew each other pretty well so I could picture your face in my mind and hear you speaking when I read what you’ve written and I knew where you lived and such, I might indeed have a better chance of avoiding misunderstanding far more often from a purely psychic standpoint. ;)

avatar Comment by Mael #183
August 30, 2010 at 2:54 pm

Lies. You’re just being lazy again. :(

avatar Comment by Conner #184
August 30, 2010 at 3:28 pm

Wait, again?? :lol:

avatar Comment by Samson #185
August 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm

Heh. It’s almost gotten to the point where some of these projects would benefit more being in a forum. I’ve even toyed with the idea of starting a TES forum of my own, but good God, if it ever actually became popular I’d get buried in bandwidth problems unless it was parked on a VPS or something. Also not sure QSFP could handle it.

Google Wave might sound great and all, but I’d be uninterested in using it. Especially if they’re just going to dump everything in less than a year. It makes more sense to keep things in an environment we actually have control over.

So yeah, I dunno, I’m not having much trouble with the way it’s being done right now, other than figuring out where the last comment actually is so I can follow along. If another medium is desired, I’m open to the possibility of hosting it here. Just don’t use phpBB, for the love of all that’s good and right.

avatar Comment by Dwip #186
August 30, 2010 at 4:54 pm

I’ve updated the OP to reflect current discussion. A couple of things:

– We already have three people in Bravil without Rutilius and Licinia. If we’re going to stash them there, we either need to just have 5 people there, or move them or the vamp wannabe guy somewhere else. I am open to suggestions.

– Chorrol has 1 spot left, everything else is full. Probably easiest to move vamp wannabe there.

– I didn’t update the miner person, because we still need to come to a consensus on them.

– Stuck AU guy as our last floater, though work still needs to be done.

– We’ve really got to figure something out for Leyawiin.

I’m game for Mael’s merchant guy, think the multiple recipe thing is great, but not sure I really want him to be the Argonian ambassador. Maybe I’m too influenced by the Argonian ambassador in Morrowind, but I’d like the dude to have a bit more gravitas.

We could either just make him AU guy in totality, or make him a seperate guy. Not sure the Argonian bit works, considering the lack of Argonian nobles. Might work as a retinue member for the Argonian ambassador, but that would totally upstage said ambassador.

Or, since I just learned to read and actually read the comment right, that idea could work ok. Could tie these guys in with the Blackwood Company somehow, too. Or not.

Also, as a random thought, we could tie the khajiit guy in with the orc skooma guy somehow. Or the Gellius thing. Or not. Also, does the Elsweyr mod have any unique clothing we could beg, borrow, or steal for this guy?

As far as moving the discussion elsewhere goes, I tend to agree that we’re coming up on outgrowing the blog format. There are some ways to partially fix that, including comment threading, but I think we run into the same issues either way.

A couple of alternatives:

– Obviously I’ve used Wave in the past, and it is very, very good at being a collaborative tool. I’d be fine with porting our work over there, although as Mael and I are the only ones with accounts, this would obviously be a pain in the ass for everyone, and may not see a lot of use once we finish up with AFK_Castles. Too, I obviously share Samson’s concerns about longevity.

– As far as the forum solution goes, I don’t think I have a lot of business setting up and running one. Beyond this specific project, I just don’t have the traffic. Not to dump on our beloved fearless leader, but insofar as most of the Oblivion discussion happens at his place, it’s probably better if such a forum is an arm of his blog rather than mine. Previous discussion on the matter has made it an registered-users-of-his-blog-only thing, which works for me if the goal is to have a home for WIP threads/subforums like this and as a replacement for the general Oblivion chatter threads while keeping it limited to the less than 10 of us.

Or we could just stay here. Whichever.

avatar Comment by Mael #187
August 30, 2010 at 5:22 pm

And so it’s come to this. I am forced to make my case for Wave due to the uneducated claims of my opposition.

This is taken directly from Wave’s blog:

But despite these wins, and numerous loyal fans, Wave has not seen the user adoption we would have liked. We don’t plan to continue developing Wave as a standalone product, but we will maintain the site at least through the end of the year and extend the technology for use in other Google projects. The central parts of the code, as well as the protocols that have driven many of Wave’s innovations, like drag-and-drop and character-by-character live typing, are already available as open source, so customers and partners can continue the innovation we began. In addition, we will work on tools so that users can easily “liberate” their content from Wave.

So as you can see, your arguments are hollow. Even if it does close down, the tools will be there to get the data. And that’s assuming they don’t do something else directly derived from Wave in the meantime, which is kind of what he’s hinting at.

It’s not even September yet, so that means at least four months of operation to build this mod in an environment that is absolutely perfect for doing so. And if it’s not done by then? No biggy, you can just scrape all the info out and put it somewhere else.

…although as Mael and I are the only ones with accounts, this would obviously be a pain in the ass for everyone…

Anyone can be invited to Wave now, as I said before. All it takes is an e-mail address. There are no beta hoops to jump through anymore.

At this point, the only reason you have to object is just to be stubborn! STUBBORN!

As for the AU mage NPC, I kind of already dislike the argonian idea. It thoughted good to me this morning, but now I’m kind of cringing. I still think Anvil or Leyawin is a good place for him though. :)

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #188
August 30, 2010 at 6:01 pm

I’m stubborn.

Didn’t Wave like just start up?

Here’s a thought. Maybe if we ask nice Samson can set up a private section over at smaugmuds.org. We don’t need a forum that’s going to be open, it’s just for us for project management. And maybe any other projects that are born. Plus the added benefit of being able to upload files there is a bonus.

@Dwip; you didn’t put Calidia’s parents in Leyawiin.

avatar Comment by Dwip #189
August 30, 2010 at 6:08 pm

I know I didn’t. That’s because we agreed that they’d go in Bravil, except there isn’t room in Bravil, as I explained. So we need to make a decision about that.

avatar Comment by Mael #190
August 30, 2010 at 6:12 pm

Samson could easily set us up our own little board with a subdomain to boot. afk-mods.arthmoor.com ftw?

Since it seems like everyone is more or less okay with traveling merchant guy, barring some hashing out of his living quarters, I think I’ll start working up some quests for him. :)

Of course that’s only the writing dialog thing. I have no clue how to do quests in the CS so I’ll leave that to Dwip. :D

avatar Comment by Sigurd #191
August 30, 2010 at 6:44 pm
avatar Comment by Samson #192
August 30, 2010 at 6:49 pm

Then color me stubborn, but I’m not wasting a bunch of time with some half-assed 3rd party service the provider isn’t even enthusiastic about keeping in place because “it isn’t getting enough traffic”. If you guys insist on going that direction, well, have fun, but I won’t be joining you there.

WordPress and Sandbox are inadequate for what we’re doing here. We aren’t disputing that. However I think a QSFP forum would probably fit the bill just fine. A files area, discussion forums, and somewhat crude CMS capabilities is probably all something like this project needs.

If this is really a serious discussion about how to handle further discussion on the project (and others?) then I’m more than willing to front some web space for it. Not on Smaugmuds.org though. Been half tempted to cut that site loose to someone who still cares enough to devote the time to it anyway.

avatar Comment by Dwip #193
August 30, 2010 at 7:02 pm

@Sigurd –

Oh yeah, the Imperial Dungeon set! Good call.

Like what you’ve done. However:

– I had figured on one main chamber smaller than this with several side chambers. However, this way probably works too.

– Does there exist any kind of alcove space to insert sarcophagi for guys that aren’t Antus Pinder? Those walls just scream sarcophagus to me.

– I almost like the lighting as it is. In any event we shouldn’t light it all THAT much.

@Samson –

This. If nothing else, it strikes me as something we can toss WIP threads for things at – all that AFK_Arena stuff, your various projects, etc. Good home for Oblivion chatter in general, too. I’m game if everyone else is.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #194
August 30, 2010 at 7:12 pm

@Sigurd –

Oh yeah, the Imperial Dungeon set! Good call.

Like what you’ve done. However:

– I had figured on one main chamber smaller than this with several side chambers. However, this way probably works too.

– Does there exist any kind of alcove space to insert sarcophagi for guys that aren’t Antus Pinder? Those walls just scream sarcophagus to me.

– I almost like the lighting as it is. In any event we shouldn’t light it all THAT much.

This is the “burial chamber” for a particular hero, that’s why it’s huge, currently there is a passage leading back to stairs, then an anti-chamber, then more stairs. That can either lead to an exterior exit, or an anti-chamber in a different cell which also leads down to the “main” catacombs.

However, I wanted to make this a place of pligrimage, at least in the past, rather than a simple closed tomb. Because of what I have done with the main room, I can’t really add alcoves there, in fact I can’t at all without rebuilding the whole lower half of the walls.

However, I can add them into the anti-chamber, or a side chamber, using the “secret” alcove from the tutorial.

Re: Lighting, trust me, the high wall torches will be much creepier than the blue light I used there, they’ll also cover some of the oddities of using the tileset this way.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #195
August 30, 2010 at 7:37 pm
avatar Comment by Dwip #196
August 30, 2010 at 7:38 pm

@Sigurd –

Fair enough.

I do think there needs to be some sort of ancestral tomb aspect to things. The pilgrimage aspect makes sense to me, and I like that (and we should definitely have some random statues and Kvatch banners and such rotting away in there). As far as the tomb bit goes, maybe we could have the central antechamber, then with a couple of branching side chambers for tombs?

Stuff I forgot to get to:

As in we’d need to alter more NPCs or create more NPCs? If you don’t mind explaining to the layman here, why?

As in either of those. To make Demetria work with existing NPCs, we’d need to alter their AI, which can cause compatability issues. To avoid this, we’d need to add some more NPCs.

Ok, his helm or shield ought to work just fine. But if this is mimicking the vanilla quest from the same city that closely, perhaps we need to consider a few changes to it beyond just helm/shield instead of sword. Maybe it’s already been claimed from the battlefield where he fell by some local who the player now needs to buy or steal it back from?

This could work, and would keep it from being the same as half the Chorrol item quests/the Pale Pass quest. Also, instead of a weapon or something, we could make it some sort of personal token Arriana gave to her husband.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #197
August 30, 2010 at 9:28 pm

Sigurd: Love the tomb, love the blue lighting, so you’ll have to show us the new lighting to compare.

Samson: I was serious about a new project communication forum, and I’m pretty sure we all are. It would be a great help. Thanks.

Chorrol quest: Maybe rustic Nord chieftain has $THING and one needs to convince him returning it would be good for relations. Of course, this change in storyline removes the sappy letter to Arriana bit. Maybe needs a whole new story.

Demetria: Don’t worry about the fighting or adding more NPC’s. As I suggested it can be worked out in dialogue.

Calidia’s parents: Totally forgot about vamp dude in Bravil. We could move him to Chorrol easy enough, I think.

avatar Comment by Conner #198
August 30, 2010 at 9:46 pm

Heh. It’s almost gotten to the point where some of these projects would benefit more being in a forum. I’ve even toyed with the idea of starting a TES forum of my own, but good God, if it ever actually became popular I’d get buried in bandwidth problems unless it was parked on a VPS or something. Also not sure QSFP could handle it.

I would agree in part, I think you’d be far better off just having a forum for the projects of your own and your buddies, particularly from a bandwidth perspective.

I’m game for Mael’s merchant guy, think the multiple recipe thing is great, but not sure I really want him to be the Argonian ambassador.

Having had it explained for clarity, I’m cool with it too, but I agree that he shouldn’t be the Argonian Ambassador too. The tie in to Blackwood works for me too.

Also, as a random thought, we could tie the khajiit guy in with the orc skooma guy somehow. Or the Gellius thing.

You’re just loving these tie-ins a bit too much. ;) :lol:

At this point, the only reason you have to object is just to be stubborn! STUBBORN

Fine, I’m stubborn then. Like Samson and Dwip, I worry about the longevity and whether it’s worth establishing an account yet someplace else to have to keep track of just to have to shift it to a new medium (that we could start with immediately instead) in a few months.

Samson could easily set us up our own little board with a subdomain to boot. afk-mods.arthmoor.com ftw?

Would work for me, but it’s his call.

Since it seems like everyone is more or less okay with traveling merchant guy, barring some hashing out of his living quarters, I think I’ll start working up some quests for him. :)

Sounds good to me.

One Grand Tomb for a hero, using the Imperial Dungeon set

I’m with the apparent consensus, it looks good as is, why change the lighting?

However I think a QSFP forum would probably fit the bill just fine. A files area, discussion forums, and somewhat crude CMS capabilities is probably all something like this project needs.

If this is really a serious discussion about how to handle further discussion on the project (and others?) then I’m more than willing to front some web space for it. Not on Smaugmuds.org though. Been half tempted to cut that site loose to someone who still cares enough to devote the time to it anyway.

I agree that QSFP should work nicely for this.

I believe that we are all serious about this one, and I doubt we need a separate domain, just a sub should work fine. (Hell, it even be wip.arthmoor.com or even http://www.arthmoor.com/wip or some such.)

Don’t cut lose Smaugmuds.org just yet, I’m not sure anyone else out there’s willing and able to take it over and do it justice and, even if you’ve lost interest in maintaining it, I’ll bet you’d agree that it still serves a very valid purpose and still fills a real need out there and does deserve a bit of proper justice.

To make Demetria work with existing NPCs, we’d need to alter their AI, which can cause compatability issues. To avoid this, we’d need to add some more NPCs.

Gotcha.

This could work, and would keep it from being the same as half the Chorrol item quests/the Pale Pass quest. Also, instead of a weapon or something, we could make it some sort of personal token Arriana gave to her husband.

Cool deal. I like the personal token even better, maybe a family heirloom amulet or some such.

Love the tomb, love the blue lighting, so you’ll have to show us the new lighting to compare.

Seconded.

Maybe rustic Nord chieftain has $THING and one needs to convince him returning it would be good for relations. Of course, this change in storyline removes the sappy letter to Arriana bit. Maybe needs a whole new story.

Hmm.. that would change it quite a bit, I think I liked the idea of just changing it to a personal token that the PC has to recover from battle field looters better. Or am I getting our quests mixed up now? :(

Totally forgot about vamp dude in Bravil. We could move him to Chorrol easy enough, I think.

As long as we come to a final decision at some point on his placement. ;) :D

avatar Comment by Dwip #199
August 30, 2010 at 10:39 pm

Updated OP. Wannabe vamp moved to Chorrol, inserted Rutilius and Licinia in Bravil.

The Altmer male pencil-in for the wandering AU dropout merchant guy works for me.

You’re just loving these tie-ins a bit too much. ;) :lol:

I think I probably am, actually. Ah well.

Re: Valga quest, I think a couple things:

– Coming down more and more on the side of $THING being an amulet or signet ring or the like.

– I like the “scour the battlefield” route a lot more than the “talk to dude” route because it has the potential to be way more awesome visually if we do it right. Snow and bones and scattered weapons and skeletons and all that.

Brainstorming a bit, what if we do the battlefield thing, and also have a random Nord camp there for whatever (or no apparent) reason. If the player just shows up, the Nords will be hostile, and there will be a big fight. Alternately, speechcraft or taking Karn along lets the player avoid the fight and go right to wherever Charus is – some kind of shallow “we buried him really quickly so we could bug out” grave, thinking.

avatar Comment by Mael #200
August 30, 2010 at 11:03 pm

Would work for me, but it’s his call.

Pfft, underneath that gruff liberal-hating exterior, Samson is actually a nice guy. You’d no sooner have to ask than it would be done.

avatar Comment by Mael #201
August 30, 2010 at 11:10 pm

Just so we’re all on the same page, I’ve just made sure to inform Dwip that AU dropout guy and wandering merchant guy are NOT the same person. :p

avatar Comment by Conner #202
August 31, 2010 at 3:38 am

Coming down more and more on the side of $THING being an amulet or signet ring or the like.

Yes, royal signet ring or special family amulet sounds ideal.

I like the “scour the battlefield” route a lot more than the “talk to dude” route because it has the potential to be way more awesome visually if we do it right. Snow and bones and scattered weapons and skeletons and all that.

Being that I’m not the one who has to build such a battlefield and so on.. I’d far prefer the scour the battlefield idea, but I was trying to come up with an alternative that was plausible. After all, it was very common for local folk who’d been put out by the coming of war to their fields to rummage through the aftermath of a large battle for whatever salvages they could find and profit in any way from.

what if we do the battlefield thing, and also have a random Nord camp there for whatever (or no apparent) reason. If the player just shows up, the Nords will be hostile, and there will be a big fight. Alternately, speechcraft or taking Karn along lets the player avoid the fight and go right to wherever Charus is – some kind of shallow “we buried him really quickly so we could bug out” grave, thinking.

This could work for me, but I’d really like it if there was an actual reason behind them being there, especially if they’re going to be hostile to the player without Karn (or some serious speechcraft) to safevouch the player.

Pfft, underneath that gruff liberal-hating exterior, Samson is actually a nice guy. You’d no sooner have to ask than it would be done.

Well, yes, he is nice enough, and probably willing enough as well, but I’d still rather him offer than us impose.

Just so we’re all on the same page, I’ve just made sure to inform Dwip that AU dropout guy and wandering merchant guy are NOT the same person. :p

Good deal.

avatar Comment by Sigurd #203
August 31, 2010 at 5:19 am

Uh guys, we don’t need to move the Vamp from Bravil to chorrol, Calida’s parents share a bed – so they are only a single person from a space/slots perspective.

Also, they only go with one Quest, so they don’t take two slots in that manner either.

this is a general point actually, couples only take up one slot if they live together.

avatar Comment by Conner #204
August 31, 2010 at 12:36 pm

Hmm, I was thinking, and I imagine Dwip was too, that our NPC slots were for NPCs to have to create, not quests and/or beds to accommodate them. (I didn’t think we were necessarily even trying to do a quest per NPC either… I thought we’d agreed some of the NPCs would be just for ambiance. :scratching his head:

avatar Comment by Dwip #205
August 31, 2010 at 1:56 pm

Yeah, more or less what Conner said. We’re sneaking in some ambient servant NPCs, and that’s fine, but the thing about the slots was to keep the number of nobles roughly equal.

Also Bravil’s pretty cramped for table space.

If we decide we want more NPCs, I’m fine with that, but we should probably deal with the ones we have first, and finish up Leyawiin.

Speaking of which, I guess we’re putting Mael’s alchemist guy there, or what?

avatar Comment by Mael #206
August 31, 2010 at 2:34 pm

/stab stab stab

avatar Comment by Dwip #207
August 31, 2010 at 2:57 pm

et tu, Mael?

*dies at the base of Samson’s statue*

avatar Comment by Samson #208
August 31, 2010 at 3:19 pm

Somewhat lost as to which battlefield is being discussed, but it sounds like the MQ battlefield?

avatar Comment by Mael #209
August 31, 2010 at 4:14 pm

Traveling merchant’s name will be Nemeus Velopiscus. I am currently, between setting up my audio rig to do voices and dying from back pain, going through the item lists for ideas for quests.

I’m not sure about what level I should expect for quests to start. I was thinking imp gall might be one of the first ingredients, but by level 10 even, imps are gone. I don’t want to create situations that are stupid hard for the player. Although not all of his schemes will involved alchemical items.

Stuff and things.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #210
August 31, 2010 at 4:33 pm

I’m kinda lost and confused about the battlefield thing too, but I’m in a cold med induced haze, so..

I’m not sure it’ll be plausible. Do we have any idea how long he’s been dead? And to have the (mock-Charus-fought-here) battlefield still there? And the signet ring….I’m not groovin’ on it yet.

I prefer to put Calidia’s parents in Bravil, more so for the lower class of the upper class backstory, but good point on how many we can get at a table thing. Wherever they fit is good with me.

avatar Comment by Mael #211
August 31, 2010 at 4:37 pm

Is there some worry about modifying the tables that are there already? Couldn’t you just add a bigger one in Bravil?

avatar Comment by Dwip #212
August 31, 2010 at 6:16 pm

Was there any particular problem with moving the vamp wannabe to Chorrol?

As far as the Bravil table space thing, we’ve got 4 people and there’s 3 slots. That’s fixable by several means, not the least of which is that somebody just doesn’t show up for dinner. We can also rework the table and other such things.

Re: Nemeus Velopiscus, depending on what we’re after, you CAN buy imp gall fairly cheaply at alchemist’s shops, but. And he’s definitely traveling? I suppose I can write him in up above then.

Now, as to the Chorrol business.

As I understand our quest so far, Arriana Valga, Countess of Chorrol, is distraught at the death of her husband, Charus Valga, the former Count. This is straining her relationship with Petrius Valga, Charus’ cousin and look-alike, and Elenora Valga, Petrius’ wife.

Somehow or another that I don’t think we’ve figured out yet, the player gets sent to get $THING from Charus’ body to comfort Arriana so that she’ll have something else to remember Charus by and get her to lay off Petrius and Elenora. That doesn’t entirely make sense to me, but it’ll do.

The thought has been to involve Karn Silveraxe, our rustic Nord chieftain in Bruma, either by having him possess $THING, or by having him guide the player to the battlefield where Charus was struck down, where he can possibly help the player deal with a Nord clan that’s taken up residence there for an undetermined reason.

Several bits of lore come in to play here.

To quote Alessia Ottus in the Guide to Chorrol:

Her husband, Count Charus Valga, was a staunch Defender of the Faith and follower of Stendarr, and his death in battle against the heathen Nord clansmen of Skyrim was greatly lamented by his people.

That’s as much info as we have on how and where Charus died. As best I can figure out, he doesn’t have a tomb anywhere one way or the other.

The vanilla quest Canvasing the Castle is pretty much all about how distraght Arriana is about her dead husband, and how she was obsessed with a painting of him that Chanel stole. Chanel’s also totally in love with the guy, although there’s no evidence per se that there was any fooling around on Charus’ part.

The quotes are pretty inconclusive, but suggest to me that all of this was either relatively recent, or or far enough in the past that Arriana’s having relapses. Whatever works, I guess.

In any event, that’s where the battlefield thing is coming from – my idea that instead of retrieving $THING from Karn, the player goes on a quest to the actual battlefield in Skyrim where this took place. I’m having it occupied by Nords to provide some sort of flavor obstacle that isn’t fighting a bunch of undead.

It also occurs to me that instead of inventing a $THING, $THING could in fact be the body of Charus, which could be brought back for burial, possible love note to Arriana, revelation of secret love babies with Chanel, or evidence of skooma-filled debauched revels with Gellius Terentius included therein.

avatar Comment by Mael #213
August 31, 2010 at 6:32 pm

I actually like the search for $THING where $THING isn’t so much a bauble or gear as much as it is a note that maybe even Arriana had written to Charus before he left and maybe he had written something in reply on his way to the battle, but didn’t get a chance to send it back before he got ganked.

But I also like the body thing, except you’d think that would have happened by now unless the battle was last week.

But I definitely feel like a sword, shield, amulet, ring, etc is overly cliche. YMMV.

And yeah, Dwip, the merchant was supposed to be a traveler with no base. Both to fit Connor’s merchants are coutiers thing and to fit the NPC’s theme. I figured he’d spend like four days in each town before moving to the next. Also, I’m thinking maybe until you finish his last quest, maybe he doesn’t buy or sell. He’s just trying to find a profitable situation he can… profit from. Either way on that I guess. I kind of want him to be a comedy element if no one objects.

avatar Comment by Samson #214
August 31, 2010 at 6:43 pm

Well ok. The battlefield thing makes more sense now. I was mainly concerned about it sounding like the MQ battlefield which would have caused all sorts of issues. Not the least of which would be a major compatibility clash with UL Snowdale.

To put things into perspective, I was poking around UESP history pages and found that all of the events of every TES game published to date takes place within the last 33 years.

Now unless Charus died at some ripe old age well into his hundreds, you’re going to be hard pressed to find anything in lore that would fit in the last 33 years. The Empire hasn’t been at war with Skyrim for ages.

So either Alessia Ottus sucks at research, or she’s referring to some off the books skirmish that took place along the border with Nordic barbarians. Given the complete lack of information, I’d say just make some shit up that sounds plausible and it’s all good.

Let’s also keep in mind the fact that after 33+ years there won’t be anything but bones left to find.

avatar Comment by Dwip #215
August 31, 2010 at 7:28 pm

FWIW, Chanel is all of 22, while Arriana is like 65+. Which sort of suggests that this happened sometime in the last couple years, since as court mage Chanel probably wasn’t at court during her teenage years, meaning no creepy girlhood crush business.

Too, I’d think this is some kind of off the books skirmish with some random bitty Nordic tribe.

Also FWIW, I was angling at the body + note thing. Maybe they go for the body but also find the note, or whatever.

avatar Comment by Samson #216
August 31, 2010 at 8:40 pm

That being the case then it’s perfectly feasible to drop some random battlefield near the Skyrim border and stick a skeleton there to represent his remains. With or without the note doesn’t matter to me, but I like the idea of finding one to bring back to Arriana along with the body if that’s where this is going.

So. Do we or do we not want to set up a QSFP site to transfer this discussion to? I’m willing to do it assuming it’s going to see use.

Before someone suggests it, no, I’d rather not use phpBB3. Their security reputation still sucks. I’m also not going to pay for a license to something else like Invisionboard.

avatar Comment by Dwip #217
August 31, 2010 at 9:21 pm

I think everybody pretty much said they would, yes.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #218
August 31, 2010 at 9:25 pm

I was angling at the body + note thing.

I concur.

Do we or do we not want to set up a QSFP site to transfer this discussion to?

We do. I’m so lost on all the details we’ve talked about. A thread for each NPC would be nice.

Also some ownership of each NPC would be useful, so one person isn’t writing 34 quest dialogues or 2 people aren’t writing for the same NPC.

Tossing this into the ring: A name change from AFK_Castles, which might give people the impression we’re adding new castles, to something like AFK_Castle_Life, or AFK_Courtiers.

avatar Comment by Dwip #219
August 31, 2010 at 9:53 pm

1. Yeah, when the site goes live, we’ll at least have a thread for each group of NPCs.

2. Indeed you are correct. Ownership should get dealt with fairly soon. Feel free to claim some guys, folks.

3. You’re probably right, and AFK_Courtiers would make sense to me. Any other suggestions?

4. Leyawiin.

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #220
August 31, 2010 at 11:25 pm

Yes, yes, Leyawiin.
How about a secret Necromancer?
Seems to me we could use more magic type people.

Demetria is so mine :P
And since I’ve been told I’m doing the Calidia/Storrig story, I might as well do her parents too.

However, having said that, Dwip, you’ll have an important email shortly.

avatar Comment by Samson #221
August 31, 2010 at 11:29 pm

Dibs on the DB guy in Cheydinhal. As if anyone expected otherwise :)

So yeah, I’ll get something set up later. After I’ve had a chance to get the Brena River update out.

Hana, you never check your email do you :P

avatar Comment by Hanaisse #222
September 1, 2010 at 12:03 am

lol, I just did, Samson, see response. But no..lol

avatar Comment by Conner #223
September 1, 2010 at 12:54 am

And yet another 18 posts in 11 hours? Yeah, we need to do this as a forum with separate threads for each NPC and for the construction stuff a separate forum section divided as needed.. seriously, I think a single forum section for the project as a whole would do but I do agree that individual threads for each NPC’s development is very reasonable. Maybe do a forum section for the project then a sub-section for construction and one for NPCs then threads for each individual NPC with the NPC section post-able for the overall coordination (as in the part at the bottom of the original post here. The fun part’s going to be figuring out how to take the 223 existing posts here and transplant them to the new forums site and how to do it so as to divide various posts into respective threads.. let alone trying to maintain accreditation. …Samson/Dwip, what’d you have in mind on how to handle that?

In any event, Samson, once it’s setup, let us know the address so we can all go get registration out of the way.

Secret necromancer in Leyawiin sounds good to me (I’d actually been debating suggesting something of the sort), but what’s this person’s “cover” story that the player will be uncovering to discover that they’re a necromancer?

AFK_Courtiers works and probably is more appropriate at this point than AFK_Castles since this project started out with the idea of fixing up the existing castles and is definitely turning into all sorts of NPCs with even more quests that don’t even get restricted to the castles anyway. At the very least, at this point, if we were going to stay with AFK_Castles, it might be better to modify it to AFK_Castle_Intrigue. ;)

Hmm, if I was going to “claim” someone, the mafia Don/DB guy, AU dropout, vamp wannabe, and armored paranoid fighter are the four I’d be most likely able to help out with. That being said, the Mafia Don was really Dwip’s idea combined with my DB guy idea, but Samson is indisputably the best person to handle that one and he sounds pretty willing… Which leaves the paranoid armored dude, except that he was really Sigurd’s idea, and the AU dropout and Vamp Wannabe, except that they were both really Mael’s ideas. (Unless I’m mistaken about any of those three.) I’d rather not lay claim to someone else’s baby before they’ve had a chance to speak up, so I’m going to yield on the taking ownership thing until I see who else is claiming who.

You know, while we’re at it, Samson and Mael have both contributed to this as much as I have, perhaps their names should be listed in that ‘division of labor’ section of the OP too? ;)

avatar Comment by Dwip #224
September 1, 2010 at 3:13 am

So yeah, I’ll get something set up later. After I’ve had a chance to get the Brena River update out.

Ah, so it’s close then. You never respond to my emails anymore. I’m crushed. :P

Re: Divisions of labor – We should probably worry harder about this once we have our forum up and going, but:

– Hanaisse gets Demetria, Calidia/Storig/parents.
– Mael’s got his alchemist guy
– Samson’s got DB orc (and his not fleshed out antagonist who’s part of that quest, I hope?)

Paranoid armored dude is actually my dude, and unless you have an awesome idea for him, I should probably take him. I imagine I’ll get the Dunmer family, too, and in any case I’m sure I’ll be tossing in things all over the place, so.

Re: Credits – Samson and Mael will obviously get credits too. That initial division of labor in the OP was just there for a starter, and I think at this point we’ll just see how things work out.

Re: Secret Necromancers – I should probably leave this one to consensus, since between ABR, CTS, and my recent mage character, I’m a little done with necromancers. Just can’t get my head there.

We do seem to be rejecting the whole race relations thing, I see.

Well, zombies are people too, I know, but.

Oh, and Re: forum porting – Not sure. I think at some point I’ll need to sit down and read all the comments and seperate them out by NPC. Alternately, I’ll just write up brief summaries of the consensus and we can work from there. I was pretty much planning to let Sigurd run the architecture side of things.

avatar Comment by Samson #225
September 1, 2010 at 4:26 am

Ok. Get over here: http://elderscrolls.iguanadons.net

I’ve got some stuff set up, and a bit of content seeded in. Nothing should be considered finalized. I’m going to go see if I can find the TES fansite kit that Bethesda released for stuff like this because seriously, a generic QSFP logo is only going to confuse me and everyone else :P

We’ll have to play it by ear for a bit, especially if it turns out QSFP needs a feature it doesn’t yet have in order to make things easier. Just don’t get crazy and expect miracles like a full fledged image gallery to appear. Cause it ain’t happening unless someone wants to do the leg work in PHP.

avatar Comment by Mael #226
September 1, 2010 at 10:13 am

You’ll need to do something about the anti-bot question, Samson. I don’t have a graphing calculator to do the math.

Hmm. The first two I got were multiplication, but then Dwip said he got addition so I tried again and got subtraction. So if you guys get multiplication, just keep trying to register until you get something different.

avatar Comment by Samson #227
September 1, 2010 at 12:55 pm

It’s called Windows Calculator. Use it :P

avatar Comment by Dwip #228
September 1, 2010 at 1:06 pm

Cool. I’ll start porting things over as I get the time, hopefully later today.

Incidentally, just so we’re all aware of this, I’ll be in DC from the 3rd to the 7th, so I wouldn’t expect a lot out of me.

(TI-89 woo)

avatar Comment by Conner #229
September 1, 2010 at 2:57 pm

Well, you’ve got nearly 250 posts between the ones here and the few that pertain to it all at Samson’s too.. maybe a synapses of each NPC would work better just as background catchup and we’ll worry more about having everything there from this point forward then, but it would be nice to have a record of every thing’s development all in one place for future historical reference. :shrug:

On the other hand, Hanaisse and I are getting smilies back. :P

Oh, Samson.. thankfully there’s a more or less equally handy calculator available to the Linux desktop in most major flavors of Linux too. ;)

Oh, and the new logo on the new forums looks great, Samson! :)

avatar Comment by Samson #230
September 1, 2010 at 6:40 pm

So yeah. I don’t know how we want the remaining organization to work. Is this mod’s subforum going to have subforums of its own for each aspect? Like NPCs, architecture, dialogue, quests, etc? Or ?

avatar Comment by Dwip #231
September 1, 2010 at 6:44 pm

Just a bunch of threads, I think. I’m making them now. Organizing the NPCs by groups where applicable – the Valgas will all get a thread together, for instance. Also creating a couple of “master” threads for more general info.

avatar Comment by Conner #232
September 1, 2010 at 7:35 pm

I think it looks like Samson’s got it more or less already covered well enough for the section organizing. I happen to be a big fan of sub-sectioning, but even I know it’s not really needed in general beyond a basic organizational level. I could see, within the section for this project having sub-sections for NPCs and for Construction, but I don’t think we’re breaking things down beyond that anyway as all the quests and dialogue are tied to their respective NPCs anyway. :shrug:

avatar Comment by Dwip #233
September 1, 2010 at 8:48 pm

Everything relevant has now been ported over to the forum.

avatar Comment by Conner #234
September 1, 2010 at 10:08 pm

Cool.. sure seems like there was more info here than that, but I suppose you’ve essentially covered what’s needed to bring each NPC up to date.

Now if only the recent list there would show just the unread threads.. didn’t one of the earlier versions of QSFP do that? :s